|
   |
Accueil >> Forum >> Bigest airline Forum Aviation civile
Bigest airline
Retour à l'index du forum - Poster un message à cette discussion
| |
Message de calfo - Envoyé le 07 Oct 4:21 |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de CREW - Envoyé le 07 Oct 8:07 |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de XiPHiAS - Envoyé le 12 Oct 6:53 |
|
| |
I don't think anyone comes close to AA unless you would count NetJets as an airline. I saw on Discovery that if they were considered an airline that they would be the or one of the biggest.
-XiP
AIRFLEETS.NET STAFF
PHOTO SCREENER
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de jetman - Envoyé le 01 Nov 0:43 |
|
| |
Well, for two more months aproximately...The largest carrier is American Airlines which as of July, 2008 was operating 654 mainline jets, flying 88,538,063 RPK (000) Jan-May 2008. The number one carrier since they aquired TWA, Trans World. But...It will change by year end however. Delta Air Lines is expected to complete their purchase of Northwest Airlines and begin consolidation in January. The combined carrier, the new DELTA, using the same July, 2008 figures, would operate 760 mainline jets, more than 310 regional jets and have 126,600,081 RPK (000). They will fly to more cities and countries than anyone in the skies.---WOW!!---
I think the industry will turn a new page with the first truly global airline.
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de jetman - Envoyé le 01 Nov 0:54 |
|
| |
I just learned that the U.S. Justice Department approved the Delta deal on October 29, 2008. The was the last hurdle involving any governmental approval necessary to close the merger. There is only one stupid lawsuit filed by 28 passengers in a San Francisco court over some frequent miles and competetion concern. It is not expected to amount to anything now that the Justice Department has made their decision.
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 01 Nov 1:08 |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de isaac - Envoyé le 02 Nov 0:33 |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de jetman - Envoyé le 02 Nov 11:11 |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de Mrtnw - Envoyé le 03 Nov 3:13 |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de captain bill - Envoyé le 03 Nov 10:21 |
|
| |
Changed days indeed for I remember when Aeroflof before the USSR split up had such a large fleet no one within Aeroflot knew exactly how many aircraft they had and there was always something new turning up somewhere around the world that no one outside the USSR had seen.
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 03 Nov 12:09 |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de FLX - Envoyé le 03 Nov 13:02 |
|
| |
New DL is by-far the world's biggest by fleet size.
However, I always hv problems considering an airline the <BIGGEST> solely by fleet size. Fleet size is fundamentally flawed as an indicator, e.g., is a fleet of 1000 turboprops bigger than a fleet of 100 A388s? RPK(Rev pax km), total pax carried, etc. are much more meaningful size indicators.
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de Mrtnw - Envoyé le 03 Nov 14:13 |
|
| |
Speedbird: right, Fedex is cargo, but that question was biggest fleet as in nr of planes... FLX is right, total pax, RPK are more meaningful measures for the size of the airline than just it's number of planes...
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 03 Nov 22:42 |
|
| |
Interesting theory FLX and a good one at that. So if that theory is to stand what would be the biggest airline in terms of PAX. Must be a close call.
Mrtnw. Don't always trust Wikipedia. Plus maybe FLX can correct me but the word ''Airline'' refers to PAX carriers and not cargo. we then start to talk about logistics or express delivery or freight
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de FLX - Envoyé le 04 Nov 8:02 |
|
| |
speedbird9468:
Here is my speculation(i.e. No much facts to back me up):
If we look only @ an airline's total pax capacity(i.e. Total # of seats in the fleet regardless of how many aircrafts they have) and do not consider the total distance flown per yr on all flights, EK(Emirates) will become the biggest airline in the world in terms of total # of seats available in just a few yrs.
EK is already among the top10 by most size indicators(Except pure fleet size). By 2011, they'll hv 122units of 777 family and 59units of 330 family. By 2012, they'll hv 58units of 380 family. I mean even the total of all these still won't make them the top10 in pure fleet size. However, 330, 777 and 380 are all huge suckers that can carry at least 237pax per piece in EK config(Avg is closer to 300-350seats per EK aircraft). Unlike the typical turboprop, RJ, 737NG/32x dominating the skies in EU and Americas, almost all EK aircrafts hv super-low density premium classes with sleeper or lie-flat seats(Many are in private cubicule/suite layout that squander cabin space like crazy) that easily help EK to gain a top10 spot in total Rev$. Another trivial but interesting point is that although pay rate will be very diff, you always need 2 pilots to fly a turboprop which is exactly the same # of crew U need for flying a 380 behemoth.
By most of my standards in judging airline size, EK will become the biggest airlines in the world pretty soon.......Bad news for some forum members here who hate to see the rise to the top by a non-American/European carriers.
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de Mrtnw - Envoyé le 04 Nov 9:20 |
|
| |
EK(Emirates) will become the biggest airline in the world in terms of total # of seats available in just a few yrs.
The only things we now need to factor in is the number of cycles made by a plane.
EK planes are likely to make 1 return flight per day? Meaning 2*400=800 pax
Let's take a low cost 738 which can easily do up to 4 round trips per day which gives us up to 4*2*180 =1440 seats.
Loadfactor might be different, $ per seat for sure is different... but in the end EK will win in RPK!
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de Mabel - Envoyé le 04 Nov 17:27 |
|
| |
EK and the other Arab airlines (e.g. Etihad, Gulf Air, Qatar Airways, Saudia, etc.) are the only ones that can afford to expand in the current economic conditions because they're paying a fraction of the fuel price that the rest of the world pays. Gasoline and jet fuel costs are, at the most, 50% less in the Arab world than anywhere else. The combination of ill-gotten terrorist blood money, government subsidies and plentiful cheap fuel will ensure that these vulture airlines keep flying and feeding off the dying carcasses of the rest of the aviation world.
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 05 Nov 23:38 |
|
| |
Good theory FLX. on another point of view. If DL and NW have the worlds largest fleet and fly to more destinations than anyone eslse I would put them up the top. But EK is growing silly quick I fear they may at some point bite of more than they can chew. Ok they are also silly rich. But money doesn't last forever. Pan Am was a great airline look what happened. The way the world is at the moment anything can happen
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de jetman - Envoyé le 05 Nov 7:40 |
|
| |
Certainly you can measure a carrier by # of passengers flown, revenue passenger kilometers, fleet size, freight tons carried, number of aircraft, number of employees etc etc. However, probably no carrier will be #1 in all areas. No carrier holds that position now. But Delta now has combined operations with Northwest, Comair, Mesaba, and Compass Airlines. All are !00% Delta owned. They have over 1100 aircraft as well as a lost of owned aircraft that are being flown for them by contract carriers. (E.g.CRJ 900's/EMB 170's) EK is not close to flying to DL's 375 cities in 66 countries, with 29 more cities to come on 2009. About 85,000 direct employees. Unless we have another mega-merger they'll stay on top for quite a while. In most areas they're #1. Not to mention codeshares with DL Skyteam members, Air France, KLM, Alitalia, Aeromexico, Continental, etc.
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de FLX - Envoyé le 05 Nov 13:35 |
|
| |
jetman:
The new DL is no doubt right @ the top in most relevant measures of airline size today. I just think EK will become a truly formidable force in the nex 5yrs that can directly challenge/exceed the top positions of the new DL in many measures.
Like speedbird9468, I initially think EK's fleet expansion plan is a bit unrealistic - a by-product of the typical Mid-East oil rich excesses. When I look a bit deeper, I've found that EK's plan is not as far-fetched as I originally thought. DXB(Dubai) sits roughly @ the intersection where Europe(Old-rich), Africa(Resource-rich), Russia(Oil/Gas-rich) are on one side and East Asia(Manufacturing-rich), India(IT/Skilled labor-rich), Australia(Mineral-rich) are on the other side. Trade & investment between/within these regions are growing so fast above global avg that an explosion in air travel between these regions is inevitable. Also, many cities in some of these regions hv such huge & growing middle-class population that make some big cities in EU and U.S. look like small towns in comparison. It's not at all unthinkable to image multiple daily EK A388 full-flights from BOM(Mumbai), PVG(Shanghai), NRT(Sydney), etc. connecting @ DXB with EK's European flights within a decade. So essentially, EK is sitting right @ the perfect spot to hub-and-spoke all these intercontinental traffic. This is not unprecedented and we've seen something like this before, on a smaller-scale, within the N.American continent. Today's Dubai is like Chicago O'Hare(ORD) 3-4 decades ago. Because of its location, ORD became the perfect air hub for the entire continent facilitating rapid economic growth & investment to/from all directions within N.America. By dominating the ORD hub, both AA and UA grown quickly and finally stand head & shoulder above a bunch of domestic competitors which hubbed in less ideal locations.
I see the history of ORD repeating @ Dubai today over a much larger geog area/global trade zone. But instead of 2 leading carriers splitting huge traffic volume almost evenly @ the most desirable hub location in N.America, EK doesn't hv to fight against anyone else in Dubai to feed on the rapidly growing hub and spoke traffic in the entire Eastern hemisphere. This is the equivalent of EK sitting on the world's biggest but little-explored new goldmine in the latest goldrush of commercial avaition.
New DL is enormous no doubt but they face a big problem in the large, rapidly growing economies in Asia-Pcf: They've next to no mkt presence in this region. DL currently serve may be 2-3 cities in Asia-Pcf with so little frequencies. NW has been around in this region much longer and has better mkt coverage+brand awareness but it's still tiny beyond Japan. New DL's 375cities sounds impressive and EK is in fact no where close to that figure until we look @ may be 3/4 of them are within N.America where growth rate and yield are generally low relative to mkts elsewhere. 1,100 are a lot of aircrafts but the majority of them are turboprops/RJs/smaller narrowbodies that will forever fly low-yield, short range commuter/domestic hops within N.America. True, this old goldmine is still productive and the new DL is the world's biggest, most powerful prospector. It's just that this mine is depleting and the pieces of golden nuggets are getting smaller and smaller...
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de captain bill - Envoyé le 06 Nov 23:05 |
|
| |
Most international airlines around the world see EK as a great threat within the next ten years indeed it has been said by two or three CEOs that EK will dominate the airline industry and I see that as a bad thing. DBX will become a worldwide hub and with EKs cheap fares in comparison to the direct carrier they will indeed dominate
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de FLX - Envoyé le 06 Nov 10:37 |
|
| |
captain bill:
Actually, when it comes to premium mkt, EK is not cheap at all. Take Asia-Europe biz class fare as an example. In mature mkt routes(e.g. HKG/SIN/BKK/SYD-LHR), EK with 1-stop in DXB typically costs a bit more than non-stop services by some majors(BA,QF,CX,TG,NZ,etc.). Another example: My boss in New York flown JFK-HYD(Hyderabad) for our conference in India last wk. He wanted to fly EK via DXB but found their fare almost double that of LH(via FRA) so he went with LH instead to save our precious travel budget. I jokingly told him EK's target premium customers are senior oil/investment industry execs, not him(An Executive VP in the lowly IT sector). With such high stds in premium product both on and above the ground(Frankly, the best EK longhual is superior to the best of BA,LH,AF,etc.), I guess EK can get away with robbery.......
Yes, no consumer wants to see a single airline group ended up being the only dominant longhaul carrier in the global mkt. That's bad for mkt competition. However, I don't think think that will ever happen to EK unless regulatory environment becomes extremely liberal(i.e. worldwide unlimited 5th feedom rights/openskies, foreign ownership restriction abolished, etc.). DXB can never efficiently hub the majority of coast-to-coast transpacific and transatlantic traffics and those are huge longhaul mkts. So even if EK become the biggest, they still can't dominate and there'll still be plenty of similarly sized players in the global mkt. In that sense, EK's ascent will be a wake-up call to the established majors reminding them that their top spots are not guaranteed and must continue to compete vigorously. I fail to see that as a bad thing equally just as I fail to see any one of new DL, AF-KLM, LH or BA becoming the biggest as a bad thing. I don't care the biggest airlines is from which region(If the Arabs want to subsidize the world's air travellers, let them be...) as long as it's not much bigger than the 2nd to 5th biggest players. Today, new DL is the biggest but will we describe them as dominating the global mkt? Hardly. In its home mkt, AA and UA are not much smaller than new DL. Outside the U.S., the diff with other big shots like AF-KLM,LH and BA are even smaller.
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de jetman - Envoyé le 16 Nov 8:18 |
|
| |
Delta posted the combined fleet on their website. 1146 aircraft not counting several owned newer regional jets being operated for them by another Delta Connection carrier. Delta.com News has posted a series of new routes and services with some serious global outreach possibilities.
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de EI-DUB - Envoyé le 16 Nov 9:23 |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de mj - Envoyé le 18 Nov 8:50 |
|
| |
mabel im sorry but not long ago etihad lost one of their routes to two other airlines due to competition Emirates and Kenya airways. not to mention Emirates has just anouced a fall in prifits due to higher fuel costs.
|
|
Profil utilisateur
|
Message privé
|
Suggérer la supression
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| |
Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 18 Nov 13:04 |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Poster un message à cette discussion
|
|
Les messages doivent uniquement être rédigés en anglais. Tout message écrit dans une autre langue sera supprimé.
Les messages ne doivent concerner que des sujets liés à l'aviation civile et ne doivent contenir aucune publicité. Votre IP est conservée.
Les balises de format de texte pouvant être utilisées sont
[B]Votre texte[/B] : Texte en gras
[I]Votre texte[/I] : Texte en italique
[U]Votre texte[/U] : Texte souligné
[S]Votre texte[/S] : Texte barré
Pour inclure une photo Airfleets.net dans votre message, utilisez la synthaxe [P]Numéro de la photo[/P] |
|