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Accueil >> Forum >> AC: The flight will not be the same again! Forum Aviation civile
AC: The flight will not be the same again!
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Message de flylinefrontier - Envoyé le 28 Nov 1:29 |
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AS you all know, Ac had ordered lots of new aircarft. New Cabin.
E190 replace some of the A320's family.
B777-300ER replace some A340-300 and B767
B777-200LR new long haul rules
~ YYZ to Shanghai (PVG)
~ YYZ to SYD (still planning) (might use B787)
B787 replace most of the B767 and having more long rules. New rules, adding more flights between Canada, United States and Asia. (Europe is still on planning, because there is enough flights already between England, France...)
A350 still on planning not to, but might order.
A380 Still looking for comments from other airline about it, looking and researching the aircarft and passengers safety.
E series: E190 will up to 60
CJ: Not much, might ordered CRJ-1000 to replace Dash 8 and CRJ 200, and 100.
Install new seats for any aircarft except some B767, A340, A320's family and CRJ 100 and 200.
AC looking more NG (next Generation) aircraft. Some have more new type of entertainment system. AC are continue having Safest airline in North America award, and the biggest plan changes in NA.
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Message de Spot planes - Envoyé le 28 Nov 2:41 |
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The new planes are way past due. Some of AC's plane interior is so worn out it is worse than those in third world countries.
I put in 50K per year in AC planes. New interior are nice but lots of features in the AVOD (e.g. map) are not working. The new J seats are lacking elbow room as partitions are on both side of the seat. AC planning to charge for premium content in the AVOD, just like Westjet.
I don't think AC will get A380s. They'll opt for more frequency with smaller planes.
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Message de FLX - Envoyé le 28 Nov 12:42 |
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flylinefrontier:
What are new RULES? Do U mean ROUTES?
Spot planes:
I read about similar complains re elbow room on other airlines(e.g. CX) with the newer cubicule/partition design in J/C-class. I understand actual width dimension of each seat space in almost all cases hv not decreased. I guess it has more to do with 1) Visual perception of encroachment(i.e. High walls) causing uncomfortable feeling and 2) Communal/sharing of space in the past, even temporary(Your neighbour & you rarely do arms stretching and intrude each others' space at the same time), between seats now become impossible.
I hv a slightly diff/more specific view than flylinefrontier re AC fleet plan for the nex 5-7 yrs based on AC's official press releases:
1. N.America
A) Short-Medium range routes with slight type downsizing:
E190 to replace more 319
B) Medium-Long range routes expansion:
319 redeployed to join 320
C) Higher traffic trunk routes @ peak hrs(e.g. Calgary/YVR-YYZ):
Deploy a few 333 or even 77W(777-300ER)
All 762/763 replaced by 788 fm 2010
2. Transpacific
A) High growth/new routes
77W/77L replace some 763ER
788/789 replace remaining 763ER fm 2010
B) Mature trunk routes
77W replace 343
77L replace 345/763ER(HKG,SYD)
788/789 replace 763ER fm 2010
3. Transatlantic/Central Asia
A) Europe
77W replace all 343
All 333 remain
788/789 replace all 763ER fm 2010
B) Mid-East/Indian Sub-Cont new routes
77W/77L for key Indian cities
788/789 replace all 763ER fm 2010
358: No need because already invested in 789
359: No need because already flying brand new 77L
3510: No need because already flying brand new 77W
388: No need because only 3-4 routes(PVG,PEK,CDG,LHR) may hv sufficient traffic to support such a large type at least 7 yrs fm now.
YYZ-SYD will actually be YYZ-LAX-SYD as neither the 789 nor the 77L can do non-stop with an economic payload. The route also depends on whether AC can secure 5th freedom right to carry pax flying only between SYD-LAX(Much bigger mkt than SYD-YYZ).
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Message de Spot planes - Envoyé le 28 Nov 17:42 |
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FLX:
An excellent and detailed analysis!
1. LAX-SYD
AC's proposed YYZ-LAX-SYD will compete with QF on 2 fronts. It will of course compete in SYD-LAX market, but also will compete with QF's SYD-LAX-JFK route to the east coast. May be even threaten QF's LHR bound traffic by offering those passengers a North America stop over.
LAX-SYD is an interesting market. QF make lots of money on this route as you can see up to 6 QF B744 are parked at LAX for the day. QF flights arrive from Oz in the morning but won't return until evening. That is lots of asset parked for a day. You can tell from that this route must be QF's gold mine.
On the other hand, the only other airline serving between US and Oz is UA with only one daily flight LAX-SYD-MEL. There is a huge imbalance here. Why are there not more US airlines flying this route?
SQ and AC wanted to fly this route but blocked by Oz government. Blue (forgot the exact name), an off shot of Virgin Blue is going to fly this route as soon as they got their planes.
2. A350 and A380 for AC
AC do not need another type in their fleet as B777 and B787 will serve AC well for the next 10 years. I don't see AC going to A380 at all unless there is slot restrictions that they cannot fly more frequency.
3. AC's growth market
That is China and South America. AC has been taking on more South America to Europe traffic because of the pain and visa requirement for South American transiting in USA.
AC to China are growing rapidly. They beat low cost Chinese airlines because of more reliable service. The chance being delayed by Chinese airlines is a lot higher than in AC.
For South American, B787 will do well. The bigger B777 is needed for the China market. I am betting the next new AC destination to Aisa will be YVR-CAN when AC can get more planes.
3. YVR-NRT
AC has been flying 2X daily XMed B767 this summer replacing A340. I think in winter is only one daily B767.
4. YVR-HKG
This is the only route AC still using A340s. AC supposed to replace the A340s with B777 in March 2008. However AC schedule still showing A340s well into October 2008.
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Message de 74823 - Envoyé le 28 Nov 20:58 |
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From the 16th of December AC is operating Vancouver-Sydney using a 777-300ER and i have also heard rumors of AC operating a route from Toronto Pearson-Vancouver-Sydney but i am sot sure what aircraft.
Regards,
GJ
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Message de flylinefrontier - Envoyé le 29 Nov 23:11 |
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I'm so sorry that I spell routes with rules! I am so stupid, I type too fast, but thanks a lot FLX!
Just to say, AC confirmed to fly with YYZ to SYD with B77L next year. Starting about summer.
Spot planes: I know how you feel that the seat's system are not working. Many airlines have the same problem too! The next generation system are too... too.. MANY Systiem you could say, PTV, power unit... And actually those PTV were turn on all the time!
It use too much energy and most system start working from the moment there is ground power or airplane its own power, and it was turn off when the plane arrival home and rest for the whole night. The company won't turn off if there will be a flight 2 hours later, they wounld continue turn on. Thats mean a whole day trip, or 2 day trip (if it is a long hual aircraft...)
AC is kind of the first airline who will replace A340, along with CX... A340 are still new to many airlines in Europe, Finnair, SAS, Virgin Alantic...
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Message de FLX - Envoyé le 29 Nov 11:59 |
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There's a very simple reason why for the YVR-SYD route, AC will 1st deploy 77W fm mid-Dec and then switch to smaller 77L fm early 08: Fm mid-Dec to mid-Jan every yr, it's summer vacation peak for Australians and many of them travel to Vancouver for its winter skiing season. It makes sense for AC to deploy their biggest type on this route during this period and then switch to smaller type after the peak.
Spot planes:
Totally agreed re the LAX-SYD mkt. I think there are a few factors why QF is dominant here:
1. QF dominate the SYD hub. Many QF pax fm LAX to SYD continue onto other AU destinations almost exclusively on QF Domestic which owns like 60-70% of the domestic mkt. Although UA is partnering with VirginBlue(Not really codesharing), they still can't offer the convenience of traveling on a single carrier and with domestic reach as deep as QF.
2. The reverse of 1. doesn't really happen for UA and they're far fm dominating LAX. In fact, QF's OneWorld partner AA is @ least as big as UA in LAX regarding connections. AA also codeshare a lot with QF here so it's extremely convenient for QF pax to connect beyond LAX.
3. The scale of ops of other U.S. Int'l carriers @ LAX are not even close to UA or AA in LAX. None of them can feed enough traffic to support their own LAX-SYD route.
4. Normally, only U.S. or Australian airlines can fly LAX-SYD. Airlines of other nations must hv 5th freedom right which is usually granted only if the route is the only logical navigational access to a 3rd country. SQ will hv a hard time to prove SIN-SYD-LAX is a logical navigation access route into the U.S. as the polar or N.Pacific route is clearly shorter. Their existing non-stop routes to the U.S. such as SIN-LAX, SIN-EWR and other 1-stop services over N.Pacific make SQ's case even harder to approve. In contrast, AC will hv a much easier time to implement LAX-SYD since the logical route fm YYZ to SYD does pass through LAX/Western U.S. The U.S. has granted this right to AC decades ago and the only current objection may be fm Australia.
5. The Int'l off-shot of VirginBlue is officially V Australia: www.vaustralia.com.au
They're kinda late but hv a good chance to break QF's near-monopoly.
AC's growth mkt -
Don't forget the large & rich Indian communities around YYZ and the rapidly growing economies of India(On par with China in terms of growth rate) and Dubai(EK already flying YYZ-DXB).
YVR-NRT -
This may sound strange but I guess 1 main reason why AC replace 340 with 2X 763ER daily flights has a lot to do with the newer NRT rwy(Runway). This rwy add slot capacity to the congested NRT but is only good for smaller types such as 763ER due to its current length is less than 2200m.
flylinefrontier:
340 still new? Depending on exactly which 340 series U are talking about. 345/346 can be considered new since they EIS only a few yrs ago. 342/343 are older series as both EIS at least 14 yrs ago. Most 340 being replaced are 343 and I believe EK and LH started replaceing them a lot earlier than AC. On the other hand, are U sure your so-called REPLACE can only mean the aircrafts are old? CX only has 3 units of 346, all are leased and due to return to the owner really soon. AC is the same with their 2 units of 345.
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Message de Spot planes - Envoyé le 29 Nov 17:07 |
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74823:
AC033 B777 actually originates from Toronto, stops at Vancouver before non-stop to Sydney, so YYZ-YVR-SYD.
The return flight AC034 is SYD-YVR-YYZ the same plane B777.
FLX:
AC to India has not been successful. They tried twice in the past 10-15 years. All they get are budget travelers, not much profit rich business travelers. Same experience for AC's YVR-TPE. AC dropped these routes and leave them to the Star Alliance partners (LH for India and Eva for Taipei).
Now both Ethiad and Emirates are taking lots of traffic from India to Toronto. On top, Aeroflot has been traditionally taking lots of budget travelers between Canada and India via Moscow.
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Message de flylinefrontier - Envoyé le 29 Nov 20:30 |
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FLX: If you see Air Mauritius's A340-300, Finnair A340-300, South African Airways, and SAS and more airlines, there is still A340-300 being build. If you goto where the A340 produce list, or if you actually try one, there is space improvement. Such as new camera... When I mean A340, of course the whole group, but not the A340-200.
Emirates have the rights to fly from Dubai to YYZ, it is starting this november, and they did great with those B77W. AC will try to have that right, but it will be super expensive, because not much people fly to Dubai everyday in Canada.
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Message de flylinefrontier - Envoyé le 29 Nov 20:34 |
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Message de flylinefrontier - Envoyé le 29 Nov 20:55 |
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I don't remeber who is asking if his/her flight will have new cabin or not. You can just find out by search in Aircanada.ca. If there is a star beside your flight numer, thats mean you will be traveling with new improve seats!
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Message de FLX - Envoyé le 30 Nov 11:32 |
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Spot planes:
Thanx for the info re AC's past attempt to develop Canada-India mkt. U're probably right......at least until AC can reduce the trip cost low enough to make even the budget mkt profitable...perhaps with their 788 with 9 abreast seating in Y...
flylinefrontier:
Don't know what U mean by SPACE IMPROVEMENT has anything to do with NEW CAMERA.... All 343 built today are of the exact same exterior/interior cabin dimension as they were when they EIS 14 yrs ago. Don't confuse change in cabin furnishings design that gives a FEELING of more space as the same as a real change in space. Airlines & manufacturers do this kind of cosmetic refresh all the time.
Yes, U're right that 343 are still being built. This doesn't change the fact that the design is still relatively old and near the end of its product life-cycle. The same thing can be said of its most direct competitor: 772ER. Both types are ordered/built in such limited numbers these days that it's clear their production will end pretty soon. Majority of airlines will of course started to retire a type before the end of that product's life-cycle and a minority will choose to still order a few right till the end.
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