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Accueil >> Forum >> PASSENGER TAX Forum Aviation civile
PASSENGER TAX
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Message de captain bill - Envoyé le 13 Nov 22:43 |
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I get angry at the amount of money we have to pay out on various taxes when we travel by air. I don't pay tax if I travel on a train or a boat but when I fly I have to give more of my earnings to the tax man because the Mad Green People have convinced the idiots in government that aircraft are destroying the world. Modern aircraft engines are as clean as any if not cleaner than any form of transport today and much cleaner than most output by industry. I wonder if Mr. G.W.Bush or Gordon Brown or any of their friends in high places who fly in large aircraft with very few people on board pay any form of green tax when they jet around the world but yet they insist that we must pay.
I just feel that the airline industry is becoming the whipping boy and it is time to let us alone and get on with providing a good economical service for the traveling public.
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 14 Nov 23:49 |
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Message de Spot planes - Envoyé le 14 Nov 6:03 |
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Message de EI-DUB - Envoyé le 14 Nov 14:48 |
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 14 Nov 15:33 |
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I cant believe that a certain Irish airline charges disabled people to take their wheel chair. That is outragous and should be stopped straight away. I would suethem for some breach of human rights or something.
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Message de FLX - Envoyé le 14 Nov 15:52 |
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Yes, those taxes+surcharges are disgusting. I predict very soon, we'll be seeing more surcharges such as:
- crew surcharge
- service attitude surcharge(Pay & get a well-trained fake smile)
- F&B surcharge
- Duty-free non-purchase(Recover as airfreight cost for carrying inventory in-flight when U don't buy them) surcharge
- Inflight magazine surcharge(Flight attendant won't even let U look @ the cover if U don't pay)
- Motion sickness paper bag surcharge(Better pay for this not for yourself but for your neighbour who isn't feeling well)
- Reading light surcharge(U'll find non-functional light @ your seat if U don't pay)
- Maintenance surcharge(Hope your seatback won't come-off in a turbulence if U don't pay)
- e-ticketing surcharge(Why not, paper-ticketing surcharge is almost standard now)
- Boarding-pass surcharge(Won't even let U thur security if U don't pay)
- Overhead baggage bin usage surcharge(Locked-up when U don't pay)
- Seat surcharge(Standing in the aisle for 7-8 hrs on a transatlantic flight if U don't pay)
- Aircon surcharge
- Toilet surcharge(U may relieve yourself in your seat if U don't pay)
- Seatbelt surcharge
- Cabin cleaning surcharge(No need to pay if U don't mind someone else's leftover meal on your seat)
- Oh, and my personal favourite - airline senior executive annual bonus surcharge
Now, that's what I call creative airline management! By then, any dummy can run an extremely profitable airline.
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Message de EI-DUB - Envoyé le 14 Nov 16:27 |
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the certain irish (low fares) airline were brought to court over it for charging disabled passengers, so they now charge a wheelchair levy on ALL PASSENGERS, so despite never needing to use a wheelchair everytime i have flown with them, i have had to pay that levy!
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Message de captain bill - Envoyé le 14 Nov 18:15 |
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EI-DUB you need to change your attitude towards this low fares Irish airline who are only in business to help people like you and me get really ANGRY and UPSET and make our blood pressure rise when we think of all the dispickable things they do. So calm down and keep taking the tablets.
Long live Aer Lingus
Good to hear from you again
Bill
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Message de EI-DUB - Envoyé le 15 Nov 1:07 |
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 15 Nov 1:43 |
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not for long they'll probably invent a tax or charge for pax with high blood pressure. We all know its Fr but wheel chair tax is just F*****g ridiculous( sorry about the french). I would really think about not flying with them because of that. I'm not sure about prices but I guess that by the time you add on all the taxes etc etc its probably just the same as flying with another airline
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Message de captain bill - Envoyé le 15 Nov 11:04 |
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It is. I have the privilage of visiting Dublin regularly on business and it is much lower to fly Aer Lingus from GLA than to use Rotten Air from PIK. Although you get a low basic fare there are all the add ons for luggage, credit card suppliment, early boarding charge that never works, fresh air charge and a bit for FR then the cost is much higher.
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 15 Nov 13:48 |
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Message de FLX - Envoyé le 16 Nov 8:08 |
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Sort of make U think how divergent today's LCCs hv become in terms of service+pricing strategy.
On one hand, U hv LCCs that insist on being the cheapest in the form of impossibly low basic fare and charge U for(Or not offer at all) anything else. Therefore, we hv Ryannair, Spirit(N.America), AirAsia that are bare-bone basic, essentially flying public buses.
On the other hand, U hv LCCs that insist on replicating the traditional comfort/service package offered by the majors @ a discounted fare. This is the turf of VirginAmerica, JetBlue, Oasis Hong Kong, JetStar where the key distinctions with the major airlines are just the lack of Frequent Flyer Program, Premium Lounge, Interline checked-baggage, paper-ticketing @ city offices, free meals, etc.
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Message de flylinefrontier - Envoyé le 16 Nov 20:37 |
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Message de captain bill - Envoyé le 24 Nov 15:42 |
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Message de FLX - Envoyé le 24 Nov 16:41 |
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flylinefrontier:
I fly at least once a mth on avg. Do U think I don't know On-sale/seasonal fares?
Are U saying just because people can buy those on-sale fares, they don't hv to pay any super-expensive air travel taxes+surcharges? Come on....
captain bill:
Your point raised actually makes me think of another issue. It's not only pax originating/departing fm BAA airports that suffer. Landing fees also affect transit pax. It seems like pax better be rich if they want to plan flights involving major British gateway hubs that are controlled by BAA. I just can't help but thinking the hub & spoke concept(e.g. an A388 flight fed by many A320 flights), originally born to drive travel cost down, no longer works in the U.K. May be Boeing really is onto something with their mkt-fragmentation Gospel and the 787 prayer.....
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Message de captain bill - Envoyé le 24 Nov 20:00 |
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Your dead on FLX for like you I think Boeing have done their homework on this one and know that if airports are to expand to take A-380 size aircraft the money has to come from somewhere and by putting up the charges airports charge to the airlines this will generate the additional revenue required. I think with the capacity of 787 and with pax numbers growing we may see airlines switching away from LHR / LGW for some of the airports such as BHX, MAM, GLA and EDI.
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 25 Nov 1:16 |
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I don't think this would happen. If BAA built t5 and wasted loads of dosh why would we get operators going to bhx edi etc etc. I sure as hell wouldn't go to EDI if Ive got a meeting in london. What we might see is alternative cheap flights to lets say second major points throughout the eu and us. so you might see something like BOH to La Guardia or BRS to some airport in the us just outside the city within an hour or so of driving. The point is that loads of Business pax use lhr and lgw and there company's pay for it in addition I wouldn't wanna fly to my destination and have some mamouth drive of lets say 2 or more hours to get to my meeting or holiday destination. What we might see from another point of view is more of the charter flights moving from LGW so airports around the south for example BOH, Exeter, LTN, STN Manston etc etc Sou for some ( it cant handle anything really large like a 767) to make way for more shecduled and long haul traffic. This would be an ideal situation. Have a couple of airports for the charter stuff and let lhr and lgw take all ther scheduled stuff
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Message de captain bill - Envoyé le 25 Nov 10:47 |
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No your right Speedbird9468 but why did Delta open up MAN and EDI rather than put an extra ATL flight on from LGW or why has Continental done the same into EWR from BHX and GLA because they now know that people do travel to and from other parts of the UK . We now have Airlines looking at HOU from ABZ which means they can still have the growth they require with less hassel and lower costs. All UK travelers don't need to transit LHR/LGW and many visitors would rather fly into an airport north of London to be nearer their destination so I do think in the years to come more services will be flown to/from airports away from London. This will take some of the strain off the London Airports.
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Message de FLX - Envoyé le 26 Nov 9:16 |
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speedbird9468:
Yes, if people got meetings in London, they'll pay a premium to fly to LHR or LGW direct, no doubt. But the thing is, over the past 50yrs or more, a huge % of pax hv been flying into/out of LHR but they hv nothing to do with London at all. Not long ago, the itinearies of 90% of my friends/colleagues flying into LHR fm Asia-Pacific didn't include more than 4 hrs stay within the Greater London area. The bulk of them transit to/fm other European flights within a couple hrs. Some took the rail/bus/car to elsewhere in the UK or France.
I see a receding trend of transit traffic in LHR's future. It's already losing inter-continental transit traffic heavily to superior user-friendly hubs like AMS(KLM now probably serves more UK cities than BA!) and DXB. Moreover, if the cost+delay of the LHR transit continues to trend upward, it'll soon match the premium(Rapidly lowering due to newer types such as 787 and 350) of flying direct. Pretty soon, nearly all that will use LHR will be London-bound biz travellers.
BTW, NRT(Tokyo) has been mirroring the same trend @ LHR. This historically top transpacific hub/Asia gateway has been declining in terms of transit traffic. Clearly, its position has been eroded by other superior hubs in Asia and more efficient longer-range aircrafts.
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 27 Nov 0:51 |
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Ah now were talking transit traffic. I think that might figure somewhat in that people could arrive in LHR and get a transfer to MAN or GLA or AMS for example. Of course there are oother options for travelling when inside the UK. But I can also see what you mean by certain carriers going to other airports to avoid LHR/LGW or because its conveniet cause there meeting is in the midlands. But there are many operators that only have conectios through LHR for EX TAP (which I use) LHR-LIS-REC . Now I cant do that from from my local airport in the UK BOH. ex BOH-LIS-REC. If it existed then yes i would use it. Also if this was the case that LHR is losing some of its lets say clients (airliners and pax) then surely the numbers would be dropping which there not.
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Message de captain bill - Envoyé le 27 Nov 8:47 |
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There would now be slightly more people from Scotland and the North of England use KLM/AMS as a Trans Atlantic Hub rather than use any of the London Airports this is why I say that Airlines are looking at this and will soon have more flights to the USA and Canada from ABZ, EDI, GLA & NCL.
It is the same with Emerates to DBX out of GLA the amount of pax they carry to Austrailia is incredable.
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Message de EI-DUB - Envoyé le 27 Nov 10:32 |
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I heard a while back that Aer Lingus are also picking up a lot of business from people in the north of England/Scotland going across the Atlantic too, for various reasons. A combination of being cheaper, and to avoid the 'joy' of transiting through Heathrow.
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Message de FLX - Envoyé le 27 Nov 10:51 |
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captain bill:
Friends & colleagues often consult me re air travel. Frankly for the past few yrs, I hv been advising them to actively avoid LHR especially if their plans do not include London at all. Even for those going into or near London, I'd suggest LGW or Stansted to reduce the chances of serious delay.
speedbird9468:
The pax #s aren't dropping but they're not growing as quickly as they used to be or the other super-hubs in Europe. Also, don't forget, BAA airports effectively ceased to be public services long time ago. These are commercial enterprises that do not care if they serve only 50 pax a yr rather than 50 millions as long as they make a million times more profit per pax. I dare to say that LHR can in fact afford less growth because there's been a spectacular rise in their premium pax and $ earned per pax.
Relative to the Trans-N.Atlantic mkt, the Trans-S.Atlantic mkt is tiny with not many options. Just compare how many airlines fly between Europe/N.America and between Europe/Latin Americas. That's why U're right that for pax like yourself going to REC, it's hard to avoid LHR since U live in its catchment area and there're no practical alternatives. In contrast, the Trans-N.Atlantic mkt is huge & mature. A common example today looks like this: If anyone living north of LHR flies to ANY U.S./CDN airport but wants to avoid LHR, his flight will hv no more than 1 stop/transfer(Or even non-stop) and he'll probably have at least 3-4 diff airlines to choose fm, all having similar total travel times. This scenario also works in reverse for someone flying fm any U.S./CDN airport into the U.K. but north of LHR. A decade ago, such a trip must involve a LHR stop/transfer. Not anymore.
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 27 Nov 15:44 |
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In Fact I could fly out of BOH Via other eu airports but then my journey would be screwed up with loads of connections Ex BOH-DUB-LIS-REC this is only an example I don't even know if the DUB_LIS route exists with TAP but for the first leg it would have to be fr. (I don't like them) but if its the only option I have). As far as direct routes are concered your right thats why I'm hoping my local in the UK BOH will get something soon. I believe they will and I think it will be DL with a 757 or 767. if only a couple of times a week. BOH is growing fast and at the moment is uder redevelopment with a 32 million pound investment. DL may also use to compete with CO from BRS who knows.
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Message de FLX - Envoyé le 28 Nov 15:05 |
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Fragmentation is like a tidal wave. 10-15 yrs ago, how many UK airports hv non-stop scheduled pax flights that fly outside Europe? I can only think of LHR,LGW and MAN. Today, the numbers must hv more than doubled!
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 29 Nov 15:21 |
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