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Tam Crash
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Message de Endurance - Envoyé le 18 Jul 23:56 |
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A A320 from TAM had crashed in CGH about 2 hours ago.
Apparently it has overrun the runway and crashed into a TAM cargo building, I think that it is a non survivable crash.
The plane was doing a POA-CGH and initial estimative says that about 170 persons were onboard.
The crashed plane was PR-MBK.
Sad, very Sad
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 18 Jul 0:09 |
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Oh Bugger. Beat me to it. Just saw it on the Globo news here in REC. As of yet no survivers reported. Also it was raining heavily and strong winds. Would that have played a part. Wasn't it Congonhas that recently had problems with the runway? The reporter commented that there where no visible marks on the road or damaged runway lights at the end of the runway so could this indicate that the pilot was attempting a go round or divert to a longer runway? Globo news is reporting that it landed and the brakes failed???? For me it probaby was the wet runway and strong winds. But let's not make assumptions. May the crew and passengers and members of the families of the passengers rest in peace. God bless them!!!!
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 18 Jul 0:16 |
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Message de Endurance - Envoyé le 18 Jul 0:17 |
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Today here in São Paulo we had light rain all day, not so strong winds.
Yesterday an ATR42 from Pantanal Airlines had skidded in the same runway, but stopped in the grass.
This runway was repaved less than 30 days ago, exactly due to aquaplaning problems, but I agree with you, it seems more with a failed go around than a skid.
Endurance
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 18 Jul 0:38 |
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Hi Endurance.
Or maybe the plane was going at such speed it just left the runway at the end with insufficient airspeed and just jumped the road into the TAM Cargo Building. We must not forget that the ATR that slid of the runway yesterday was because of a reason probablt a wet runway. Now I live in REC and we get our fair share of rain. The local government do bugger all about the flooding. After 1 hour the whole city is a quagmire. Could this be the case of the grooving work not being done properly or could it actually be the brakes of the A320. We will know soon enough. But If it is the the runway I think heads should roll. What is this A Banana republic. Who many more people have to suffer. because of this Governments incompetence. First the GOL flight now this. then the ATc SINDACTA. The country is in a hell of a mess regarding Air traffic. At least Embraer are doing well
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Message de Endurance - Envoyé le 18 Jul 2:06 |
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Message de G-NIKO - Envoyé le 18 Jul 5:38 |
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Message de citation - Envoyé le 18 Jul 16:38 |
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Message de aaa - Envoyé le 19 Jul 22:04 |
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i heard on the news the runways criticised for being too short in wet weather, had been recently resurfaced, but not yet properly grooved to help drain rain water
200 people All 186 people aboard the Airbus 320 jet and a number on the ground died in the crash
Marco Bolo, the chairman of Tam Airlines (Tam Linhas Aereas SA), confirmed on Wednesday that there were no survivors amongst the 186 passengers and crew on board the Tam flight from the southern city of Porto Alegre.
Mr Bolo said three workers in the Tam Airlines building had also been killed and five others were missing
As the Airbus 320 jet touched down at Congonhas airport in a downpour it slid on the drenched runway, witnesses say.
As the plane careered towards a busy road the pilot tried to take off again, but failed, sending the craft crashing into a fuel depot and cargo warehouse, where it burst into flames.
The plane accelerated when it reached the end of the runway and tried to take off again to avoid the road, but it crashed into the building and exploded, witness Junior Matos told the AFP news agency.
In February, amid fears that the airport was too close to residential areas and that its runways too short, a federal court briefly banned three types of large jet - the Fokker 100, Boeing 737-800 and Boeing 737-700 - from using the airport.
The decision was overturned, but the runway was ordered to be resurfaced.
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Message de Endurance - Envoyé le 19 Jul 8:43 |
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Message de SJR - Envoyé le 19 Jul 11:00 |
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I cant get that video to work but to be honest i am not sure that i want to. RIP to all the victims and my thoughts go out to the families of those who were lost in this accident.
On another note what is to happen to the Embraer 195 that overan and ended up in the sea. Looking at the damage it doesn't look to bad but it is in the ocean so shorly it cannot be recovered. If it can be how would they go about moving it when it has gone down an embankment into the sea and is blocked in by bollards. I also would have thought that those bollards would have caused serious damage to the underside of the aircraft. Just good news that there were no losses on that flight.
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Message de Endurance - Envoyé le 19 Jul 11:33 |
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Don't worry, the video does not show the crash, just the light of the flames.
It makes a comparsion from several cameras of the groundspeed of a regular A320 speed x the crashed A320 speed.
You can see that the crashed plane is much faster than should, and in one of the cameras you can see water being lifted from the ground, I'm not sure if it is the reverse in use or the engines being accelerated to try to go arround.
Regards,
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Message de Roger57 - Envoyé le 19 Jul 15:07 |
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This morning, at 07:20AM, local time, another TAM aircraft, Fokker 100, when in the landing procedures at the same airport (CGH), over the auxiliary runway, had to accelerate and go around. After that, it landed safe at 07:42AM on the same runway. Please refer to the following link (in Portuguese) http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/ult95u313228.shtml
Take care, my friends, and fly safe!!!
Regards,
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Message de Boeing Boy Nat - Envoyé le 19 Jul 18:23 |
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I just looked at the BBC news site and they said according to Closed Circuit Television, the aircraft was going too fast on approach and after 11 seconds on the runway it veered off and crossed a road and went into the petrol station and TAM building.
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Message de SJR - Envoyé le 19 Jul 18:59 |
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Message de aaa - Envoyé le 19 Jul 21:29 |
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The new video footage shows some of the final moments of the Tam Airlines flight from the southern city of Porto Alegre and another similar plane which had arrived earlier
It shows the first aircraft apparently taking 11 seconds to travel along the runway, while the plane that crashed covers the same distance in three.
As the Airbus 320 jet touches down at Congonhas airport, it appears to continue speeding along the runway without slowing, before disappearing out of view. The flash of an explosion can be seen a short time later.
Marco Antonio Bologna, the chairman of Tam Airlines (Tam Linhas Aereas SA), said that the aircraft, which was only added to the Tam fleet in December and was serviced in June, had been in perfect condition and was flown by experienced pilots.
In February, amid fears that the airport was too close to residential areas and that its runways were too short, a federal court briefly banned three types of large jet - the Fokker 100, Boeing 737-800 and Boeing 737-700 - from using the airport.
The decision was overturned, but the runway was ordered to be resurfaced - which happened in June.
But Brazil's airport authority said work to groove the runway, to help clear rain water, was not scheduled to take place until 28 July, after the concrete had settled.
On Wednesday, Armando Schneider Filho, director of engineering for the nation's airport authority Infraero, said it met international safety standards.
I can confirm that there was no possibility of skidding on this runway. Twenty minutes before the accident, Infraero performed a visual inspection of the runway and detected no problems. It was wet, but there was no accumulation of water, he told a news conference.
On Monday, two other, smaller planes skidded off the airport's runway. Opposition politicians have attacked the decision to use the runway before the grooving work was done.
President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva has ordered an investigation into whether the runway was opened too early.
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Message de aaa - Envoyé le 19 Jul 21:31 |
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Calls for Brazil airport to close
There are mounting calls for Sao Paulo's Congonhas airport to close in the wake of Tuesday's Tam Airlines crash in which some 200 people died
The airport should shut until its security conditions are examined , Brazil's Federal Public Ministry said.
And federal prosecutors are said to have asked courts to close the airport until both its runways are renovated.
Officials are still trying to establish why the Airbus 320 overshot the runway, hitting buildings and then exploding.
The crash occurred in wet conditions, on a recently resurfaced runway which has been criticised as being too short.
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 22 Jul 11:57 |
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I don't think the runway is to short I think its about 1900 meters. Take a look at London City. A runway much shorter and only able to handle up to A318 never a problem there. You'd think there would be with the proximity of LHR and the city. I think the question is whas it is a mechanical failure (doubt it), pilot error (possible), or the amount of water on the runway (at the moment guilty.)
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Message de Roger57 - Envoyé le 26 Jul 20:46 |
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Yes, it is correct, Mr. Speedbird9468.
But, in addition to your comments, at the CGH runway, there is no escape area... From my point of view, beside the current Brazilian government incompetence to manage things over here, it is a criminal airport. Except if there is no other option, I never fly from CGH. Regards.
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Message de Werkur737 - Envoyé le 27 Jul 2:07 |
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Congonhas principal runway has 1940 meters, but only 1810 meters is useable, so there is no escape area.
My last flight from Congonhas was July 2006 arriving from CWB. I think the aircraft has to land on very initial of the runway, otherwise the land is hard.
The imcompetence of Brazilian government has no near end, the new Defence minister no change anything.
The Brazilian airports needs new investments and Brazil needs more flight controlers.
Congonhas has to back in time to 1991 when only CGH-SDU shuttle flights was operating and Executive and General aviation.
To stay like London City airport, with many restrictions because Congonhas has no way to grow.
Brazil needs to point the civil aviation like here US made some years ago, hiring more flight controlers and with more investments on equipment and airport crew.
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Message de speedbird9468 - Envoyé le 27 Jul 2:31 |
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Message de DASK - Envoyé le 28 Jul 5:05 |
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For the security reasons when i go from Sao Paulo for anywhere in Brazil, my choice is GRU, more safety airport that should expanded and Sao Paulo doesn't need another airport. GRU original project is not terminated, only half has made.
1810 meters is not enough for jets like A320 and B737s with good safety.
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Message de captain bill - Envoyé le 28 Jul 16:21 |
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