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Home >> Forum >> Garuda Indonesia ordered 10 777-300ER Civil aviation forum
Garuda Indonesia ordered 10 777-300ER
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Message of FLX - Sent 25 Feb 8:20 |
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http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/02/19/221647/singapore-2008-garuda-orders-10-777-300ers.html
GA plans to start flying these 77W about 2 yrs fm now mainly between Jakarta(CGK)/Bali(DPS) and Europe/U.S. Given that this airline has been banned fm flying into Europe+U.S. for over a yr now and a 77W fleet only make sense for intercontinental routes, it sounds like a high stake/high risk plan. However, if this gamble pays off, it'll provide a huge jump in capacity on routes between, say, Europe and the mysterious & beautiful island paradise of Bali. At the moment, KL and LH are the only 2 EU airlines(CO is the only American airline) that fly to Indonesia.
GA has 9 widebodies in its current fleet: 744 X3, 333 X6
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Message of 74823 - Sent 25 Feb 9:13 |
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Message of EI-DUB - Sent 25 Feb 11:11 |
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It may be high risk, but it may also be one of few options available to them, they seem to be struggling, being banned can't be helping at all and these new planes may help those restrictions to be lifted!
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Message of G-NIKO - Sent 25 Feb 13:22 |
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i'm pressuming they were banned for bad maintenence? correct me if i'm wrong.
if that is true i doubt the 777's can help those restrictons to be lifted as a poor mintained 777 is just the same as.... lets say a poor mintained 742
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Message of FLX - Sent 25 Feb 13:27 |
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74823:
I won't be surprised if GA's 77Ws will by flying their own kangaroo route(e.g. SYD-DPS-LHR) once the EU ban is lifted and terrorists decide to leave Indonesia alone. Bali can be a really neat stopover for exhausted biz travellers flying either directions. At the other end of the scale, there's always the ready-supply of Lonely Planet-equipped backpackers perpetually going to these 3 places.... Based on flight durations+turnaround times, I est. GA will only need to deploy 3 77Ws on this route to maintain a daily schedule - a MUST to compete with SIN on this route for premium biz travellers.
EI-DUB:
Completely agree and it does look like GA has been focusing on new plane orders recently(They've also ordered a bunch of 787s and 737NGs not long ago) as a way to get them out of trouble. Their youngest 744 and 333 will be at least 13yrs old and start to require more intensive maintenance by the time they receive their 1st 77W in 2010 - not an easy task for an airline already struggling to meet safety stds.
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Message of FLX - Sent 25 Feb 13:34 |
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Message of EI-DUB - Sent 25 Feb 14:11 |
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Equally, the American like you that little bit more when you buy planes from them.... but mainly as you said, newer planes are easier to maintain and would allow them to possibly have better maintenance standards etc. For what reason does anyone know did they get banned from EU and US??
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Message of G-NIKO - Sent 25 Feb 19:44 |
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Message of Spot planes - Sent 26 Feb 3:09 |
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The political situation in Indonesia has been stable for many years. The economy is improving greatly over the last few years. Now the Indonesia wants to attract more tourist to the country (not just Bali). Therefore a renewed GA fleet is necessary.
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Message of Wispam - Sent 26 Feb 5:05 |
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Congratulation with Garuda .......... ordered 10units 777-300ER
Lion Air ....... ordered140units 737-900ER
Mandala Air ...... ordered 29units A320
Totally 179units brand new comint to Indonesia.
Thanks for Garuda, Lion and Mandala for effort to new planes.
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Message of FLX - Sent 26 Feb 7:03 |
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Very true. Many gov't owned/controlled airlines hv a habit to select mainline jet manufacturers based at least partially on the prevailing int'l politics. Plenty of this still going on in Asia and it's not hard to see the political undertone behind some purchase trends. Aside fm GA, AI(Air India) hv been ordering widebodies(i.e.. 777+787) exclusively fm Boeing for the past few yrs exactly when Washington-Delhi relationship is getting warmer and vast number of large U.S. companies hv started to invest heavily in India. In contrast, the big 3 in China(CA+CZ+MU) hv not ordered any Boeing pax widebodies(Last significant orders were placed in 04 for the 788) for the past few yrs while 330s and 346s are constantly added to their fleets. Probably related to the soon-to-begin-production new Airbus final assembly plant in Tianjin(Near Beijing), Chinese airlines hv been taking delivery of a lot more 32x(Imported version) than 737NG. The on-going trade/currency disputes between U.S. and China didn't help Boeing either.
Typical for Boeing orders, the EX/IM Bank of the U.S. will most likely be involved to help GA to secure cheap financing for such an unusually large deal(US$2.5billion @ list price) - I can't recall when was the last time a small-medium size carrier placed a firm order for 10 or more large pax widebodies(77W or 346) in one go.....
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Message of EI-DUB - Sent 26 Feb 17:20 |
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Ye it is a very big order for an airline that seems to be in the doldrums.
Hopefully they will be allowed operate into EU/US again, otherwise they'll have more planes than they know what to do with!
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Message of Wispam - Sent 29 Feb 10:02 |
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indonesia plane do not need the target of to European because indonesia is world power and wide of region. Indonesia have resident 200 million and most its resident travel [in] very good asia area. Indonesia have morethan 20 airline company and many laboring EU/US citizen [in] indonesia air transport.
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Message of EI-DUB - Sent 29 Feb 11:04 |
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Yes I agree Indonesia is a big place and it is a huge market( I lived there for 2 years), but if you are buying 10 widebodies, you will need big markets such as EU and US markets to expand into!
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Message of FLX - Sent 29 Feb 16:43 |
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Is it just me? I find Wispam's comment pretty arrogant and ignorant given the fact that it was GA's own CEO Emirsyah Satar who clearly & publicy stated during the Singapore Airshow that he intends to deploy GA's newly ordered 77Ws to fly the Indonesia-EU/U.S. mkts.
If Satar, like Wispam said about Indonesia, only needs his planes to fly within Asia-Pcf, why didn't he save $ and just ordered the significantly cheaper 773 which is exactly the same size as the 77W but designed to be more economical for short-medium range routes? Leading efficient carriers in Asia like CX and SQ hv got both 77Ws and 773s and they always use 773s on Asia routes and use 77Ws mostly to fly EU+U.S. Is Satar stupid(I don't think so) or just want to waste $ for another Indonesian gov't owned company??
Also, if a country of 200million population can afford to ignore another major mkt in the world, we'll never see any airlines fm China nor India flying into the EU nor U.S. China has 6.5Xs the population of Indonesia and India is not far behind.
Some interest facts:
1. No airlines fm China nor India is banned fm flying into EU due to safety issues while ALL airlines in Indonesia are:
http://www.ec.europa.eu/transport/air-ban/pdf/list_en.pdf
2. Indonesia has more than 20 airlines and GA is already holding the best safety record and rating by far. However, GA alone has 5 major accidents(Only 1 is non-fatal) fm 1996-2007. Will U feel secure to fly if the safest airline in your country has an avg of nearly 1 major accident every 2 yrs?
It's totally absurd to think that just because a country is big, a world power and has many airlines, they don't need to meet EU(i.e. JAA) nor U.S.(i.e. FAA) aviation safety stds which are the widely recognised, leading Int'l aviation safety stds around the world. Indonesian residents should hv the same rights as others in the world to be protected by safety stds that are followed nearly everywhere on earth instead of accepting the frequent accidents and sub-standard safety of all Indonesian airlines.
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Message of Spot planes - Sent 01 Mar 23:28 |
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China has major safety issues (too many accidents) a few years back. They brought in FAA to help to clean thing up. It also helps when you have money (major trade surplus wit US)!
For that matter, Korea also has the same problem (planes falling off the sky or flying into terrain) a few years before China.
Now that Indonesia has oil money (over US$100 a barrel) they can clean up their act quickly with will and $$.
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Message of SJR - Sent 01 Mar 1:31 |
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Interesting that this might be the general thinking that just because they have brand new planes they will get back their right to fly. How well did that work for TAAG in Angola since i believe they are banned with all aircraft not just the T7's. I mean i think this may be one of those cases where its not black and white and personally i agree they will be given their right to fly back with these new planes as long as they carry out good maintainance. If they work really hard they may even get the B747-400's back in service but thats unlikely since they may well be replaced by the T7's because they have two additional engines and in this fuel concious world it seems likely to me that this may happen.
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Message of FLX - Sent 19 Mar 8:45 |
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Spot planes:
China's major aviation safety incidents occured over 1-2 decades ago, not a few yrs back. They did brought in FAA to advise them and with newer jets and newer generations of experienced pure commercial pilots(They got rid of nearly all ex-PLA fighter jockeys which were their only viable talent source in those days), safety has improved tremendously.
A COUNTERPOINT
Nowadays, I think the safety VS efficiency pendulum has shifted too far towards the safety side in China. Too few air corridors, an inflexible PLA Air Force still dictating/managing civilian traffic over China's sky and outdated procedures not matching the advanced ATC systems(Technically allow more air traffic handling capacity) now installed around China are seriously limiting or even disrupting traffic unnecessarily. Coupled with rapid traffic growth, flights into/out of/inside China hv been experiencing very widespread & serious delay/cancellation problems. A few yrs ago, I was based in a 2nd-tier Chinese city and flew on a wkly basis. I often(i.e. nearly once every 3 flights) experienced partial or complete closure of that airport due to just slightly bad weather(e.g. light rains which wouldn't hinder ops in most other airports outside China) or unnannounced PLA military exercises(That airport is shared with a PLA airbase). The situation was even worse @ major hubs such as PEK,PVG and SZX where I often flew to. It was very frustrating. Yes, I felt safe but I also often felt I'm not getting anywhere when I need to.
I can't believe I'd actually say this but yes, there can be too much safety in air travel.
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