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Home >> Forum >> Historic 1st ever non-stop flight between Australia and Canada Civil aviation forum
Historic 1st ever non-stop flight between Australia and Canada
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Message of FLX - Sent 08 Jan 9:49 |
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AC started flying non-stop SYD-YVR daily since 14Dec07. In addition to being the 1st ever non-stop schedule between the 2 countries by any airline, it's also 1 of the longest transpacific flight @ a distance of 12,484km. AC33/34 are currently operated by 77W on this route which means this aircraft is flying pretty close to its range limit when carrying full pax load+extra fuel allowance needed for the typically bad winter weather over the N.Pacific. AC is scheduled to switch to the smaller 77L on this route after the peak skiing season.
QF, a strong longhaul player with a successful transpacific history, already hv the right to fly between the 2 countries but strangely, is not competing with AC on this service and hv not announced any plan to.
AC's partner NZ has also recently started the only non-stop between Canada and NewZealand using 772ER.....seems like Star Alliance has the monopoly in the Canada-South Pacific non-stop routes....
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Message of Spot planes - Sent 09 Jan 1:39 |
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This is not the first ever non-stop between Australia and Canada. Air Canada used to fly non-stop from SYD to YVR by A340s. The old A340 cannot do YVR-SYD non-stop though.
QF has a seasonal flight SYD-SFO-YVR 3X weekly during peak summer and winter. Cuurrent seasonal schedule will end on January 16.
There is very limited capacity between North America (US/Mexico/ Canada) and Australia. There are about 8-9 daily flights between these 2 continents. Compare that to 8 daily flights between Canada (YVR/YYZ) and Hong Kong alone. Of course, there are many more daily flight between US and Hong Kong.
IMHO the Australian government is purposely limiting the capacity to benefit Qantas.
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Message of flylinefrontier - Sent 09 Jan 2:13 |
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AC had it last year too, but not daily. First it was started with mix of B77L and B77W. Then sometimes flyling with B763 with a stop in Hawial, or somewhere... Then I think December, the flight start to be settle with B77W. It will soon be one of B77L's job.
Also I thought SQ's SIN to EWR are to longest flight, about 17 hours. SYD to YVR are longer?
AC's flight now is: YYZ-YVR-SYD-YVR-YYZ
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Message of FLX - Sent 09 Jan 8:23 |
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Spot planes:
When I said non-stop, I meant non-stop both ways on a yr-round schedule basis like the vast majority of other regular transpacific flights. Still, thanx for the info re previous non-stop SYD->YVR on AC's 343. I'm aware of that flight but thought the343 had stopovers both ways just like their 763ER.
I'm also aware of the seasonal QF flight but with 1-stop, there has always been plenty of other options flying on a single carrier between AU and CA. The current QF service is hardly unique and far fm being direct competition to AC's yr-round non-stop flight.
Agreed the AU gov't has beem protecting QF in the transpacific mkt. It's slowly liberalizing though as V Australia is scheduled to enter this mkt in 09 and others will probably follow.
flylinefrontier:
I already said 14Dec07 which meant last yr. Fm the very 1st 777 entering AC's fleet in early 07, I hv never seen any AC 777 SCHEDULED between SYD-YVR on AC's timetable before mid-Dec07. For all of 07 prior to 14Dec, AC's flight between AU and CA has always been SYD<->HNL<->YVR operated by 763ER.
Again, pls read my comment carefully, I said 1 of the longest transpacific flight, NOT the longest transpacific flight. Most importantly, may I know which part of the SIN-EWR routing 'trans' the Pacific?
http://gc.kls2.com/cgi-bin/gc?PATH=sin-ewr&RANGE=&PATH-COLOR=red&PATH-UNITS=km&PATH-MINIMUM=&SPEED-GROUND=.85&SPEED-UNITS=Mach&RANGE-STYLE=best&RANGE-COLOR=navy&MAP-STYLE=ortho&MAP-CENTER=cts
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Message of Spot planes - Sent 09 Jan 8:55 |
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OT:
Try to book a seat from YVR to MEL for Jan 9 for urgent family matter. NZ is full, AC only has J class at around $13,500, QF is full, CX via HKG is available. Finally settle for UA YVR-LAX-SYD-MEL.
Traveling time on both UA and CX is about the same but I got more frequent flyer points on UA.
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Message of paul3 - Sent 03 Feb 23:54 |
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The 77W aircraft have been replaced by 77Ls as of 1st Feb. 77Ws were unable to fly the route with a full load - load was restricted to that of a 77L (42/228 - 77W capacity is 42/307) Also, weight was so critical that no duty free service was offered until the 77L started flying the route. As for the 343 operating non-stop this was only briefly and only when the wind was favourable on the SYD-YVR route only. It always stopped for fuel in HNL from YVR-SYD, though no passengers were boarded or deplaned there.
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Message of citation - Sent 03 Feb 18:12 |
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Message of Skid Kid - Sent 03 Feb 21:42 |
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Message of citation - Sent 04 Feb 3:43 |
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Message of Werkur737 - Sent 04 Feb 4:40 |
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I will make a trip to SYD and AKL on next march, not for spotting planes, will be with wife and kid, for two weeks.
So i'm member of United's Mileagle plus and have more than 20,000 to use, and the best flights could be: PHL-ORD-LAX-SYD-AKL-SYD-LAX-ORD-PHL.
Instead of this, i can stop on way back to PHL, at YVR from SYD, and would like to know if a flight SYD-YVR with AC, is non-stop daily.
AIRFLEETS.NET STAFF
PHOTO SCREENER
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Message of Spot planes - Sent 04 Feb 7:15 |
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AC034 is SYD-YVR-YYZ daily. Non-stop SYD-YVR using brand new B777.
You may want to consider Circle Pacific fare on Star Alliance which is only slightly more than PHL-SYD return. You can then sample a bunch of airlines crossing south and north Pacific.
itinerary A
UA PHL-ORD-LAX
NZ LAX-AKL-SYD
SQ SYD-SIN (A380)
SQ SIN-HKG
AC HKG-YYZ-PHL
itinerary B (shorter)
UA PHL-ORD-LAX
NZ LAX-AKL-SYD
AC SYD-YVR-YYZ-PHL
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Message of FLX - Sent 04 Feb 10:01 |
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citation /Skid Kid:
1) When the 1st batch of 77Ws entered AC's fleet last yr, they were temporarily deployed on YYZ-PEK(Photos available on airliners.net) and YYZ-NRT during Canadian summer season. Within the nex few days, AC's 77W will be back for YYZ-NRT and eventually revert back to a daily schedule by 8Mar08. Clearly, the change in equipment late last yr has more to do with seasonal demand than aircraft performance.
2) CO's 772ERs hv been flying yr-round daily EWR-PEK/NRT/HKG for ages over similar polar routing. If payload is an issue on these routes, they would hv been cancelled long time ago. Don't forget 772ER has LESS max range/payload than 77W.
3) SYD-YVR is over 12,400km while YYZ-PEK/NRT is less than 10,600km. @ max payload, max range of a 77W is 10,190km.
4) Unlike SYD-YVR, nearly all YYZ-Asia routes fly over the pole and faraway fm the N.Pacific where the notorious strong winter headwind is typical(i.e. Require more than usual fuel allowance and therefore less payload allowed onboard).
5) Many AC 77Ws HAVE BEEN(Not just a 'plan' for the future) flying YUL/YYZ-CDG/LHR/FRA continuously for over 6mths. According to AC fleet plan, upcoming deliveries will further replace 343/763ER still flying existing Canada-Asia/Europe routes+possibly a few new routes(e.g. CAN,BKK,SIN,etc.).
Based on the above(All info can be found on the internet), I don't understand the 'trouble' at all why citation 'feels' AC's 77W is not capable to do YYZ-PEK or YYZ-Asia.
paul3:
Given the tiny diff(Under 1.2%) in MTOW between 77L and 77W and nearly the same fuel burn to fly such vast distance in strong headwind, I'm not surpised(Neither did AC, I believe) that the 77W wasn't flying @ max payload. If it was, it's max range would only be 10,190km - well short of the 12,480km(Actual SYD-YVR distance)+headwind allowance(I est. about 1,000-1,500km more for winter) needed. In reality, a plane will need to be capable to fly 13,500-14,000km for this route in winter. Incidentally, that's about the max range(13,890km) @ max payload for a 77L - hence, ACTUAL payload allowed on a 77W = MAX payload on a 77L for this route in winter.
Back in late 06 when I 1st read about AC's plan to initially deploy 77W on SYD-YVR, I kinda already expected the above op situation will occur. My theory why it doesnt' bother AC too much is:
- Low cargo traffic in winter(N.Hemisphere) anyway
- Each pax(Including baggage) is much lighter per unit of space than cargo on a plane. The 77W might be carrying nearly full paxload but still flying relatively light(i.e. Low payload requirement).
- AC actually needed the extra space/seats on 77W over the 77L in order to cash-in on vast number of Australian skiers who annually spent their summer/X'mas vacation in Whistler(i.e. YVR)during it's winter skiing season.
Werkur737:
Re your question of if a flight SYD-YVR with AC, is non-stop daily , check the beginning of this same thread.
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Message of citation - Sent 05 Feb 3:51 |
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