Which airline should i take from Europe to Australia and Singapore ?

Hello Guys, I am back after working hard with Air Transat as a flight attendant the last 3 months.

Help wanted. !!!

I will have for december days off for my christmas and new years time and want to go to Australia, but i will meet first my mother in Germany, she is living in MUC.

My YUL-MUC flight is booked and paid with Lufthansa, but i want to know what you guys recommend from MUC to SYD and then to SIN and back to MUC ? Which is the cheapest flights on this route:

MUC-SYD-SIN-MUC (not a problem if i need to get connection flights, but not more than 2 hour tops waiting flights please). Flights must be from Dec 20 to Jan 6.

I have a friend which lives in Sydney and me and my mother will stay at her house for the end of year´s holidays, so we only take a hotel room in Singapore.

Sincerely,

Lisa

Not EK!!!! :-)

Seriously, I'd go with SQ (if they don't fly from MUC it's only a short train ride to FRA or ZRH), BA, AF/KL or TG.

Thanks a lot Mabel :-)

I´ve checked and both TG and SQ fly from MUC to SYD, but my choice is SQ because my return flight (Jan 6 2012) is available. So i booked and paid 5,738.90 Euro.

Lisa

Lisa, SQ is good choice. Did you get the A380? SQ would be my recommendation, second choice is QF.

Hello Spot Planes, how have you been ? !!!

From MUC, SQ doesn´t fly out with the A380, its the 777W (MUC-SIN) and 777 (SIN-SYD).

Thanks for the recommendation, i gave up TG and took as my choice SQ.

Lisa

Like the others said SIA. A great way to fly.

Lisa:
Wow, your enitre planned journey is extremely looooong range. Practically opposite sides of the globe.

No airlines has scheduled nonstop flight for MUC-SYD. In fact, none ever from anywhere EU to anywhere AU. Your journey(Excluding your Trans-Atl leg) is a classic Kangaroo route that is extremely long and always include @ least 1 intermediate stop. For YUL-MUC nonstop, there're really just 2 carriers(LH and AC) and I believe little diff in fares if any at all. For MUC-SYD, there're only 4 carriers with 1-stop service: SQ,TG,EK and EY.
1. SQ
Cons:
Typically the most expensive choice by far anytime of the yr thx largely to the premium pax pay just for the SQ brand. Unless U're talking about C/J class fare(I believe not), the EUR5,700+ U hv paid(I hope that's total for 2pax) is extremely pricey even for peak season. To put it into perspective how much extra U're paying for the SQ brand, EK charges below EUR5,700(Inc all tax+surcharge) for a C/J roundtrip MUC-SYD on the same departure dates U hv specified.....I hv flown both C/J+Y on SQ and EK a few times and I can assure U that even the most basic C/J on EK is light yrs ahead of the best Y on SQ. Finally, if U're expecting to enjoy the SQ experience(Since U've paid the full SQ price for the privilege already, why not?) all the way between Germany and Australia, be aware that some MUC-SIN flights for sale on SQ's website are codeshare+operated by LH.
Pros:
Transit time @ SIN should be the shortest as SQ has 4 daily frequencies SIN-SYD(No other carrier has as many frequencies fm an Asian hub to SYD except CX fm HKG) for U to match with your MUC legs. Since U planned 1 nite stay in Singapore anyway(i.e. Transit time becomes irrelevant), it may be worthwhile to time your SYD departure to get on a SQ 388 flight(2Xs daily) to SIN if U rarely hv a chance to fly on a 380(No surcharge for choosing a 388 flight in Y cabin, Y seat on 388 is the widest in the sky regardless of airlines). SQ is a Skytrax 5star so it's Y is well above avg and of course, U'll also earn tons of Star miles all the way fm YUL to SYD and back. SIN is also consistently among the best intercon hubs(Especially T3. T2 is below-par though by my std) out there.

2. TG
Cons:
BKK-SYD flights not as frequent as SQ so transit time @ BKK can be very long. Y product is avg thx mainly to its mostly older fleet+relative lack of cabin refurbishings/enhancements over the yrs. BKK hub is modern, spacious and pleasing to the eye but it's not as clean nor well-layout(Lots of walking to/fm most gates, boarding is a bit disorganized/chaotic) as other leading hubs in the region.
Pros:
Y services are a bit above avg and fares(EUR2,500, all-in, near your departure dates) are significantly cheaper than SQ's yr-round. Same Star miles earning advantages as SQ. Personally, Bangkok is a lot more interesting+much better value(Tons of choice for quality hotel,food,spa,shopping,etc.) than Singapore or UAE as an overnite stopover point.

EK/EY
Cons:
Y seat on EK's 777 is too narrow for such longhauls and a few EK flights MUC-DXB-SYD are on 777. Miles earned on EK/EY are nearly useless for most FFPs. Pricey food+shopping within the DXB/AUH terminals(Even by airport std). As overnite stopover points, hotel+food+shopping @ Dubai and AbuDhabi can be pricey. In general, everything in UAE feels artificial and the vibe a bit clinical....like staying in a futuristic space station/gigantic theme park: The environment outside is hostile but everything inside is ultra-modern + convenient and U just know everyone there has a specific function and none is staying there permanently. If U hate Muslims or Arab businesses in general like some members on this forum are, flying EK/EY thur UAE today will be akin to a Jew flying Lufthansa thur Berlin in 1940.....heading straight to the heartland of the devils.
Pros:
Cheapest Y fares(About EUR1,800 per head, all-in, on your departure dates). Excellent value for $ in the case of EK due to the same Skytrax 5star ranking as SQ(In fact, I find the inflight product+service in Y on EK and SQ are practically @ the same hi level) and many flights throughout the entire MUC-DXB-SYD journey are operated by EK's 388(No surcharge for choosing 388 flight regardless of cabin class). If U're prepared to spend EUR5,700 per head, the C/J cabin on EK's 388 is simply awesome(I didn't want to get off my flight the last time I tried it). Transit time @ DXB nearly as short as SQ @ SIN thx to well-timed intercon connection.

FLX, thanks for all pros. and cons., first why i got SQ and not TG is because the return flight on january 6 available from SIN, my trip is YUL-MUC-SYD-SIN-MUC-YUL, but for MUC-SYD with a stop in SIN. The YUL-MUC-YUL is with LH, price is better compared to AC, anyways i have Star Alliance miles to use. TG was not my choice because january 6 return flight is full and i want to enjoy from the first to last day off of my xmas / new years holiday time on this trip. EK was not my choice just because i already know and lived in DXB some time and i worked as f/a for EK and i know the atmosphere and i have some arabs as friends (ex-EK coworkers and fellow Montrealers), i wanted to try SQ or TG so i got my choice is SQ and EUR 5,700 i paid Y class for me and my mother and it is all taxes and surcharges and yes i am thinking on getting SYD-SIN in an A388, which is a plane i never flown on. I will earn miles with LH and SQ flights and yes i planned 1 nite stay in SIN but the focus of my trip is SYD for real (xmas and enjoy the new years fireworks with my mother and friend). And this is my frist time flying with SQ, also i never flown on with TG. So you´re right i´ll have the SQ experience. :)

Skid Kid, like i said to FLX will be my exprience with SQ, I paid a high fare and surcharges and will enjoy benefits of it :)

Lisa

Another con re EK/EY: sexual discrimination and even harassment against young Caucasian women (e.g. Lisa) is fairly common in the Arab world. Could be things like male FAs refusing to give good service, or horny old male pax making rude comments or sneaking a grab here and there. I've heard a few stories over the years about how young non-Arab women travelling without a male partner have felt uncomfortable travelling in those parts.

Lisa, I'm sure you'll get your money's worth on SQ. They've been a Skytrax 5-star airline for a number of years now, and I'm sure there's a good reason for it. Maybe you'll get lucky and they'll sub a 380 on the SYD-SIN leg due to increased holiday traffic. Also, as you're an FA yourself, I'd imagine there would also be a bit of professional courtesy thrown your way.

Thats´s right, Mabel, i hope to have their A388 flight and i´d see a bit of professional courtesy from SQ FAs and my experience with them being even better :)

As a young caucasian woman living in DXB for 4 years i faced Ramadhan times which was not easy for me, i must say, and many times i had from some Arabs (not all, of course), the sexual discrimination and even harassment :(

I am 28 years old today, i have joined EK with their minimum age required, 21 years old, and the benefits of working with EK are many. Medical plan, shop discounts and places in DXB and we have 13 days free to hang out in the city or going back home. EK workforce is made of everywhere people and thanks to it i could feel myself a bit more comfortable. :)

Lisa

Mabel:
Ok, if U want to include 3rd person ancedotes in the Pros/Cons, I'll play along(Not my std policy though when providing air travel advice/assessment).

Another con re SQ/TG: sexual harassment against young female Asian flight attendants(e.g. Lisa) is not uncommon by male Caucasian pax on S.East Asian carriers. Could be things like horny old male pax, intoxicated(Courtesy of free-flowing alcohols) or sober, making rude comments or sneaking a grab here and there right in front of other female pax. Astonishingly, senior crew leaders rarely do anything about these incidents. I've heard a few stories over the years about how women travelling without a male partner have felt uncomfortable having to endure those scenes in close proximity inflight on S.East Asian carriers.

I totally agree with FLX on the pro/con of SQ/TG. I flew them at least once a year and other Asian airlines in my TPAC trips to HKG, BKK, KUL, SIN, CGK and others.

Another subtle observation on Asian airlines, the FAs tend to serve white better than non-white, esp in Y.

I will have this xmas my first time with SQ and i doubt that could treat me bad, and i probably may get that bit of professional courtesy :)

I liked and enjoyed every minute of my job with EK, not a single bad word about them :)

When i said about sexual discrimination and harassment i was talking about some places in DXB, mostly because the Ramadhan and as some see women, but that has not to do annything related to a EK co-worker or employee, i must state it clear :)

On contrary, i was treated very well and pleased by all EK co=workers and employees :)

Lisa

Spot planes:
I thought it was just urban legends/myths or just my imaginations(Though I witnessed those incidents inflight for myself quite a few times).

<<Another subtle observation on Asian airlines, the FAs tend to serve white better than non-white, esp in Y.>>
I bet U for caucasian pax(Male or female doesn't matter), most will never notice that subtle diff in treatment....just a bit more patient, a bit more attentive/responsive, etc. They believe either:
a) Everyone regardless of race in Y is receiving the same level of attention as they do. Or
b) Caucasian-centric is the correct approach for any airline worthy of being <world-class>.

There're exceptions in the opposite direction. If U fly JL, NH, KE or OZ, U'll notice that their flight attendants tend to care a bit more about Japanese or Korean pax over any other races. I used to believe it was the language barrier but some in the industry once told me that it's because ethnic Japaneses/Koreans represent the bulk of all their pax and any cabin complaints will more likely and easily traced back to HQs @ home.

SQ is a completely diff ball game. I get the sense that they simply don't care complaints fm fellow nationals(Nearly captive consumers for SQ anyway). All they care is to present a flawless imagine to mostly caucasians of Australia, U.S. and Europe(Must be a wildly successful campaign there as demonstrated by Lisa's willingness to pay C/J level fare for just a Y seat on SQ).

Spot Planes, based on my experiences with KE, OZ, PR (J class) and KA (Y class) I (a white male) got very good service on all flights, much much much better than I tend to get on U.S. airlines. On each flight the majority of the pax were Asian and I didn't notice any discernible difference in service by the cabin crew. On a few flights (especially on the Korean airlines) communications were a bit stiff, but I just figured that was because of language issues.

Mabel: Forgive my ignorance, KA?

Lisa: That is a hefty chunk of change to shell out. Enjoy yourself, I'm sure that no matter whom you ultimately go with it will be a great experience.

KA = Dragonair (Cathay Pacific's regional subsidiary)

Mabel: the key is <subtle>. Observe carefully next time. I used to be home based in HKG and flew a lot of Asian airlines. Like FLX also has noticed. The worst were CX and SQ.

Spot planes:
I'm glad Mabel, as a caucasian traveller, shared his perception with us here. How he felt is exactly what I'm talking about: Few ever notice that subtle diff and in a way, that's why SQ+CX can get away with it. It's probably a form of subconcious/informal racial-profiling re customer service.

U won't notice it unless U live or travel frequently on the airlines in this region. I notice it mostly because I hv been based in this region for 18yrs and often travel with colleagues/friends/relatives of diff ethnic groups.

Having said that, once again there're Asian carriers that are exceptions to subconcious/informal racial-profiling re customer service. E.g., I noticed the attitude of crew+ground agents @ GA and AirAsia Group are consistently the same toward pax across all races. Although GA and AirAsia are not Skytrax 5*(GA is only 4* and of course, no LCC is really rated by Skytrax), they've my utmost respect(More so than CX+SQ) in this regard. In Asia, some carriers are more equal than others....literally.

I like the Orwellian reference.

Like the animal farm....

Hi all,

I'm flying to SYD in March and 7 weeks later but to normal life...

STR-FRA-SIN-SYD-SIN-FRA-STR = €1406,19 with SQ 1x777-300

and 3x380!!!!! yes no more 747 SIN-FRA Y class im also a white

boy and never no worries with SQ ..... when i went OS 1980 was

a bus ride.... SYD-KUL-DXB-BRU-LHR also with SQ.

Are you flying CLH or DLH STR-FRA R/T?

Im flying with DLH A319 and 737......

kiwi59:
<<im also a white boy and never no worries with SQ.>>
Is this statement intended to be funny?
Does that means SQ is good for whites but not as good for non-whites? If yes, can SQ even be considered top-class/world-class in customer service(Probably yes if only whites do all air travels in the world)?

I know this is too late for your decision, but I must put in a good word for Etihad. You don't say which class you'll be flying in, but Etihad is good in economy and brilliant in business. We fly from London to Sydney most years and have tried most of the full-service airlines. They're all safe and competent - some are dull, safe and competent - but Etihad gives consistently good service and attention throughout. And they're good value in terms of price. One factor to consider is when you want to do the  long leg  of your flight - i.e. do you want 8hours-change-14 hours or would you prefer 14 hours-change-8 hours. (of course its the reverse on the return journey) The transfers at AUH are easy and civilised . It also depends on whether you want a stop-over or not. Some other routes may be better in that regard, and Singapore or Hong Kong would be my preferred routes if so. But I'd recommend you to try Etihad if you go again.

FLX

it was just to say the same as < mabel I (a white male) got very good service on all flights, much much much better than I tend to get on U.S. airlines.> i have been on other flights to SYD and
i must say SQ have been the best sofar. so can it be that you
are from that part of the world??

kiwi59:
<<so can it be that you are from that part of the world??>>
I hope there's nothing wrong if I'm <<from that part of the world>>.

Most regular members on this forum already know my background well for yrs <<so can it be that you are>> new here? I grew up and graduated fm university in Canada but hv been based in the Asia-Pcf region(Mostly HKG) since 93. I travel frequently for work+vacation(Hv been to SYD over 10Xs) and hv flown with nearly all carriers(Plenty on SQ) in this region. I must say SQ is AMONG the best, not THE best. There're 4-5carriers(All serve Europe/Germany) in this region AT LEAST as good as SQ for medium+long hauls in terms of overall service+product: CX, EK, OZ, QR(SkyTrax seems to agree with me as all 4 are rated 5Stars same as SQ) and NH.

FLX:

I was born in East-Berlin [ 1983 ], ex-RDA, and moved to Montreal, Canada since my two years old with my father [ divorced from my mother ], our trip was made via Zürich, Switzerland. :)

I studied in Collège Regina Assumpta, here in Montréal and graduated in 2000 year. :)

Its too bad SQ not coming to Montréal, we´re seeing more and more airlines at YUL but should be more if our gvt could make our country free of stupid regulations. I posted about deregulations in other topic here in this forum, i don´t want to see any Canadian and German carrier broken and i like EK because i worked for them 4 yrs and 2 months, was my first job, and it doesnt mean i m in favor of airline regulation mkt. ;P

I d like to see in YUL more and more airlines and free competion, all i care for is my money, like pay less, go farther, hahaha, i wonder why AC doesnt go Africa and why Belgium cant have a big airline like in the past, BRU is not a lala land, and i hate to see what is Olympic airlines today so different from Olympic airways in the past. Despite economic failures and countries bunkruptcy the problem is mismanagement :( Other thing i hate is merger, whatever you say, today the mkt is less less compared to what we saw untill 2008 (when 4 great airlines ceased in U.S., e.g. Aloha, after 61 years flying). That is my point, free mkt: pay less, go farther and survive to whatever. :)

I paid more for my MUC-SYD-SIN-MUC with SQ simply because i wanted to make wide open possibilities if i ever need to change dates, thats all and my reason. :)

Lisa

i don´t know about kiwi59 reasons but i wanted to make my point as well :)

Lisa

Lisa:
<<Its too bad SQ not coming to Montréal, we´re seeing more and more airlines at YUL but should be more if our gvt could make our country free of stupid regulations>>
I strongly believe restrictive bi-lateral is not the reason why SQ is not in YUL. SQ is still holding the right to fly to pretty much anywhere in Canada and indeed it had utilized that right to YVR(Already the largest Canadian mkt fm SIN) many yrs ago. It's just that it's no longer profitable for SQ to fly to its largest Canadian mkt, let aone smaller mkts like YUL or YYZ to/fm SIN. It's much cheaper+cost effective for SQ to serve Canada via AC/UA connections(SQ has invested so much in StarAlliance already, why not get some dividends in the form of codeshares?). Unlike N.East Asian airlines and Gulf carriers, it's tough for S.East Asian airlines like SQ to directly serve Eastern N.America profitably. It's an ultra-long route fm home and op cost per trip is extremely high. Today, only SQ managed 2 such routes:
SIN-EWR by SQ:
NYC works for SQ mostly because all WallStreet firms selected SIN as their S.East Asian HQ location. No other cities, including YUL, in the N.East has nearly as much hi-end/premium-heavy Corp traffic to/fm SIN to pay for the super-high op cost(Almost 19hrs nonstop per way). In fact, SQ's 345 deployed for this route only has 1-class: C/J. EWR is a big Star hub so feeder traffic helps too.
SIN-FRA-JFK by SQ:
Most traffic on this route are SIN-FRA(I'm sure U'll agree this has always been a major trunk route) and FRA-JFK(NYC is always a big mkt fm FRA) with relatively few thru traffic SIN-FRA-JFK. If the German gov't doesn't give SQ 5th freedom on FRA-JFK, this route will almost certainly die. Thru traffic SIN-FRA-JFK are mostly lower-yield C/J or Y as the hi-end Corp mkt typically prefers SQ's SIN-EWR nonstop.

MH used to do KUL-ARN-EWR and TG used to do BKK-JFK nonstop as NYC, among all Eastern N.American cities, is by far the biggest mkt to/fm S.East Asia. Even these routes died due to ultra-high op cost and insufficient traffic demand.

Unlike carriers fm other parts of Asia, it's naturally easier for N.African+Arabian carriers to serve YUL. 1st of all, they hv the distance advantage. 2ndly, linking French-speaking N.African nations with French Canada directly or via Mid-East hubs hv good commercial prospects. In contrast, most of Asia doesn't speak French and therefore, YUL mkt to/fm most of Asia outside the Mid-East can't be big......the main reason why English Canada YYZ, just next door to YUL but still far fm Asia, gets many more Asian airlines(LY,EK,EY,PK,AI,9W,CX,HU,BR,KE) than YUL.

10yrs fm now if YUL eventually gets more carriers fm Asia, I bet it'll most likely be VN(Many Vietnamese still speak French) and with a slim chance, NH(Have been doing summer tourist charters NRT-YUL for yrs and was rumored to use 788 to launch schedule in the distant future).

Countdown to my flights to SYD and SIN via MUC and i wonder if i´d like to upgrade to business class what about miles i need to do that.... :)

Lisa

Give up a trip report. Enjoy your holidays. Do walk across the Sydney Harbour Bridge - on top.

@Lisa: just spent last week in YUL/YOW area. The smoked meat at Schwartz's is as good as ever. Moe's #3 at YUL is fantastic.

Schwartz's is one of the few restaurants in the world that I think is good enough to make a long trip just to eat there. I wish Montreal style smoked meat was legal in the USA.

Lisa, You'd likely need at least 125K miles per segment to upgrade to business class, and if you didn't pay full fare Y you will probably have to pay in cash as well as miles. Or maybe you can play the professional courtesy card and get lucky that way.

Spot Planes: Thanks, sure i will give up a trip report and enjoy so far in SYD :)

ohhh you been here in YUL ??? Next time let me know....i need to go there those restaurants are famous and will go again after my last time a long ago ..i´ve been so busy with my air transat flights that when not sleeping and serving pax i ate less less food the last 50 days and i guess i lost about 5 kilos of weight. :)
i´ve heard ppl tell me a lot of moe´s and Schwartz´s even as a vegetarian one i will go there these days i have free before get my plane to down there SYD :)

Mabel, i did pay full Y fare, so i will try courtesy from fellow SQ f/a, thanks :)

You two guys next time here in YUL we not only eat those nice restaurants but spotting a bit too, 55th street the best area you guys know.....i have a friend YUL spotter, Kevin Sorgi is a nice friend and we already had a nice time watching and spotting planes :)

Schwartz´s a way better than any Cheese Cake factory :)

Cheesecake Factory misses the mark because they try to be everything to everyone.

Skid Kid:
Sort of like the Walmart of the restaurant chain biz?

Yes. But WalMart delivers on what they promise. Still dread going in there though.

Can you give us a trip report so far YUL-MUC-SYD? Not much spotting in winter as it gets dark at 4:00pm and also terribly cold outside. 55th Ave at YUL is also my favourite spot too. I like the north side as all the European/African flights land and take off there. But the damn wooden fence is in the way. Have a nice hot vacation down under.

06L/24R Best runway to be spotted at YUL... :)

In SIN today tomorrow flightback to YUL via MUC, SQ to MUC, MUC-YUL is LH474 A330-300 Jan 6th arriving in YUL, found time to login here in hotel not asleep and upcoming trip report i post here in few days...... :)