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AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY

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captain bill

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 02 Aug 15:59

I see we are not getting a lot of new postings due to those in the Northern Hemisphere probably being on holiday and we are even starting to talk military so I though for a bit of fun and nostalgia we should all look back over the last 10, 20, 30 or more years depending upon your age and tell us about the airlines that are no longer around that you miss and if you like tell us why.

I am putting my list together and will come back on this one.

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Mabel

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 02 Aug 16:52

I fondly remember Eastern Airlines...the hockey puck livery, the hideous green interiors and that. We flew them a few times from London to Florida and within the USA when I was a kid. The loads on their Transatlantic flights were never great so I remember usually having a row to myself to play with my Star Wars figurines. They were always good to kids and I remember always getting cockpit tours and those little clip-on wings. British Caledonian was another goodie from when I was a kid. I always remember BA in those days as being a bit cold and unfriendly to kids and having a lot of stuffy passengers.

A bit later on British Midland was a decent airline before they morphed into BMI.

And after that, when I moved to the USA, Northwest was a very good (by U.S. standards) airline before Delta gobbled it up.


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captain bill

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 02 Aug 20:13

Caledonian Airways back in the 1960s was one of my favourites from the past with the DC-7C and Britannia 312s. Then came the 707s and the then owner Adam Thomson bought out British United Airlines and so we had British Caledonian whom I still miss greatly.

Another great British airline was British Eagle with it's Britannia's and BAC One/Elevens and just before they went bust they again had 707s. Who remembers Dan-Air, Autair, Air Anglia who became Air UK, Cambrian, North East based in Newcastle both swallowed up by BEA, Gill Air, Air Ulster with their Dakota G-AMJU, Emerald with their Herons, British Westpoint with their DC-3, Donaldson International and Lloyd International. Then there was my great friend and mentor Sir Freddy Laker with Laker Airways. It was from Fred and the late great Sir Adam Thomson (BCal) that I learned much about the industry.

From the other side of the pond there was Overseas National, Capitol, Trans International, Braniff and of course Pan-Am and TWA.

TCA who became Air Canada and the bright orange of CP-Air whom I also remember as Canadian Pacific. Ward Air came along a bit later and are also sadly missed.

So many European airlines have come and gone and I'm sure someone will remind me of a few. Sabena and Swissair come to mind and Spantax with their CV-990 Coronado.

Give us some other name from the past to conjure with and stir a few memories.


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Mabel

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 02 Aug 21:36

Another oldie was the original Olympic Airways (the one founded by Aristotle Onassis). Flew with them out of LHR in the mid 80s as a young lad when Everton played a friendly against Olympiakos and I remember how the FAs were very fit and how the cabin reeked with cigarette smoke so thick you couldn't see 5 rows in front of you...then again, all of Greece reeks with cigarette smoke so thick you can't see 10m in front of you.


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Freshbrook

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 03 Aug 22:31

I think I may have posted this memory once before on this site or maybe another just like it. I recall a Donaldson Britannia doing training circuits at EGPK/PIK. It was a great day for weather but a bad day for the trainee pilot. After a particularly ropey landing, the tower announced Donaldson XXXT, your landing is timed at one six, one seven and one eight. The training captain was not amused.

Prestwick was used by many airlines of the day for training purposes due to good weather (usually) and very little traffic.

PIK was very informal in those days.........

Another occasion was when USAF C-47 51057 (the based hack) was taxiing from the north dispersal for take-off. The tower broadcast someone's left their golf clubs behind Immediately came 51057, Prestwick Tower, 51057 is returning to the ramp with a technical problem.

I hope that ATC (and aircrew) have not lost their sense of humour in these modern times.


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speedbird9468

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 03 Aug 22:45

Blimey Dan Air. I remember at BOH they had a HS 748 their and regular charter services with the 727 and A300.


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captain bill

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 03 Aug 7:34

Freshbrook - I remember well the banter between the tower and the aircrew at PIK. I never heard it anywhere else like it. I remember a a BOAC B707-436 or Boack Bomb as we called them doing touch and go circuits and on the full stop landing after about ten circuits the pilot did as the DonDon Brit did bounce a few tines before getting the nose gear down. The training captain requested >Speedbird XXXX request taxi to apron golf for crew change over< The tower replied >Speedbird XXXX clear to bounce all the way back to Apron Golf<

The trainee pilot is now a toilet attendant doon the prestwick sonds. Only kidding.


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Wanala Dreaming

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 03 Aug 7:38

Not forgeting probably the best livery for its time was BRANIFFs Big Orange 747s.Remember seeing one on my travels somewhere and saying Wow how many tins of orange paint did they use on that !.You defo saw one of those coming in to land from a very far distance even in thick FOG !.


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FLX

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 03 Aug 8:13

Love these as icons:
PA<PanAm>
1st flew in 83 on a 747SP flight lasting 14hrs+ to SFO with my parents<Well, not exactly with them as they got pampered in F while we juniors stayed further back in the cabin...>. With so much time to kill on that flight, my kid brother and I went visit them during cruise. I recall I saw their amazingly luxurious cabin near the nose....PA inflight services+products were still firmly among the best in the world. Only later as I got older that I found out PA, as a corp, was already falling out of the sky by the 80s....though U couldn't really tell by flying in its aircrafts! In media and public in general, it was 1 of the most recognizable U.S. brand regardless of where U're in the world. Remember the iconic photo/film clip of the Beatles walking down the airstairs fm a PA 707 @ JFK in the 60s? I always wonder why they didn't arrive on BOAC instead.... In those yrs, PA and the jet-set are 2 terms that were almost interchangable....flying PA was both elegant AND funky @ the same time!<No idea how they managed to fuse these 2 opposite concepts....>. Ceased ops in early 90s.

CP<CanadianPacific and later became Canadian Int'l>
1st flew in 76 on a 732 LAX->YVR. On take-off, I recall it used so little rwy length and shot into the LA evening sky like a rocket....a completely different sensation than the KE 742/D10 I was on just a few days earlier. As the home carrier back then, family, relatives and friends used CP all the time. Don't know why but I always got a warm, fuzzy feeling whenever I saw that big bright orange/red/metalic CP 742 sitting on the tarmac in far-flung places such as HNL, HND<Old Tokyo Int'l>/NRT, HKG<Old KaiTak Int'l>, BKK<Old DonMuang Int'l> and HNL....may be that warm & down-to-earth Canadian hospitality did existed. In any case, U simply couldn't mistaken CP aircrafts for anything else - such a eye-catching yet pleasing colour scheme that delivered a lot of PR goodies to parent CP Group<Still exists+profitable in non-aviation biz> fm around the world. CP was also the carrier that introduced me to the world of premium travel when I bought my 1st-ever C/J-class ticket for a CP 744 flight HKG->BKK in 95. Merged with AC and the brand gone in 00, sadly.

Absolutely miss:
AN<Ansett Australia>
1st flew in 98 HKG->SYD on a 743. Even though its 743 fleet was leased fm SQ and was recently retired fm active SQ duties<An airline that has a habit of getting rid of really young airframes...>, inflight services of this little known jewel fm downunder were about twice as good as QF @ slightly lower fares. AN really spared no expenses in inflight services/products: Among the 1st to offer horizontal lie-flat F-seat in the late 90s, THE biggest J/C-seat pitch in the world<Helping AN to market its 743 flights as the SPACESHIP services> @ the time and excellent cuisine+wines in Y. Combined with a domestic network op that was equal to QF, AN was becoming a formidable challenger to the Flying Kangaroo to/fm/within Australia. Unfortunately, what's superb for the pax was bad for airline accountants and their financial statements: AN went busted around 01 and dragged NZ<Part owner of AN which also enjoyed consistently great pax reputations> along to near bankruptcy.

NW<Northwest Orient and later just Northwest>
1st flew in 77 on a 742 to HND<Tokyo Int'l>. However, NW really grew on me when I started using it frequently fm the mid-90s shortly after I graduated fm university. Most likely the 2nd oldest Trans-Pcf scheduled carrier after PA, NW had 60+yrs of history in Asia-Pcf. With its large hub and huge ops in Tokyo<The 3rd biggest NW hub>, this American had been a de-facto #3 Int'l carrier for Japan with tons of 5th freedom, beyond Japan flights. Heck, it even operated between the 3 largest Japanese cities....think of NW as a Japanese carrier that happened to speak fluent English<Well, American English at least...> and U wouldn't be exaggerating. NW's AMS hub was nearly as impressive thx to its industry pioneering Trans-Atl alliance with KLM way back in the early 90s. In a sense, unlike other U.S. carriers<Except PanAm>, NW Rev$ relied heavily on non-American customers....all these were strong background reasons why NW's customer service culture/approach was quite a bit diff fm other U.S. longhaul majors....arguably the most un-American U.S. carrier. With a relatively small U.S. domestic network, NW was 1 of the few U.S. carriers that realized early on that most of its growth would be in longhaul intercon mkts. As a result, head-on competition with foreign players that excel in inflight services would be inevitable. This was why NW was always well ahead of other U.S. carriers to match<Sometimes even exceeded> the foreign competition most notably with its intercon WBC<World Business Class> product. Also loved the last red on silver colour scheme used by NW that was so distinctive, sharp and with a cyber flavor. Personally, NW's FFP and its related website impressed me the most - the most generous and user-friendly I hv ever seen<DL's ok but not user-friendly to non-U.S. customers>. Merged with DL last yr, the legendary NW brand, sadly, hv disappeared forever.


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speedbird9468

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 03 Aug 14:43

Can anyone remember BAF and their viscounts?


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captain bill

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 03 Aug 18:21

I worked them for about two weeks must have been around 1995. They were falling to bits but every night they were filled with mail and off it went from EDI to EMA.

There was also a company called Air Ferry flying DC-6 and another I remember called Invicta flying DC-4 and DC-6.

We were talking about Braniff. Do you remember the one/elevens all various colours and then we had Court Line in the UK with One/Elevens and L-1011 and they were all different colours.


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Freshbrook

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 03 Aug 20:35

Remembering Braniif's orange 747s with a fellow enthusiast the other day, I asked if he had ever seen the orange Concordes. Surely Braniff never had an orange Concorde he remarked. I had to tell him he was right.

My orange Concordes were the evening arrival into LHR descending between Bristol and Swindon with the setting sun behind the aircraft, lighting up the underside a brilliant orange. Worth delaying the evening meal just to watch this beautiful sight. Not to be forgotten.


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captain bill

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 04 Aug 7:59

Braniff did operate Concord on joint ventures with both BA and AF out of LHR/CDG to IAH and then on to DFW. The flights were flown over the pond fully crewed by BA or AF but on the IAH/DFW sector Braniff cabin crews worked the flight. No Braniff bars ever flew the airliner as far as I know.


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Freshbrook

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 04 Aug 9:08

Can anyone remember which operator flew a Dakota or two from Blackpool to the Isle of Man back in the 1960s. You would remember the aircraft, string securing the rear passenger door and adequate ventilation provided by non-existent door seals. It was a useful experience and I did survive the return journey.

My only other similar flying experience was flying from RAF Abingdon to RAF Wildenrath in a Blackburn Beverley, up in the tail boom, 1965 that was. Not one of these aircraft have survived. Too big for museums and likely to rot quickly if left outside. I think mine was rotting whilst still in RAF service.........

Captain Bill, were you ever involved with PAAG at PIK and would you have known David Reid, now deceased?

Regarding Northwest (NWA/NW). My wife's cousin was a frequent flyer with that carrier based in Minneapolis for several years flying domestic and international routes. Not her choice, her company chose the airline. Even with superior seat and cabin service she still described NWA as NORTHWORST. I don't suppose she had much choice out of MSP.


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FLX

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 04 Aug 10:40

Freshbrook:
Yes, I remember hearing <Northworst> fm my friends & colleagues, mostly Y pax, back in the 90s. Compare with many direct foreign competitors, NW's Y was quite dissmal. However, the same could be said for all U.S. longhaul carriers back in those days and when I asked these friends & colleagues which U.S. longhaul carrier had better Y than NW, none could thought of 1. On the other hand, I still think NW did very well in the premium longhaul mkt with WBC beginning fm the early 90s. I was fortunate enough to hv tried it for the 1st time in 95 and it matched most of the direct foreign competitors and was way ahead of any U.S. longhaul carrier.

NW did hv a near-monopoly<Now became a DL near-monopoly> in MSP and if U happened to be based around Minneapolis, U're pretty much a captive customer<Yes, U're screwed..> whenever U're flying nonstop fm home for more than 7hrs. It really doesn't matter how your dominant home carrier actually stacks up against the others...the lack of choice always tend to make consumers easily feel bad toward the incumbent. E.g., most of my friends & colleagues based in Singapore always complained about SQ....yes, SQ, the darling in longhaul inflight services in the eyes of many flyers who live in Europe and the U.S......go figure.... I understand that mentality as I myself, based in HKG, quite often subjectively discriminate against dominant home carrier CX - another highly acclaimed carrier.

The grass is always greener on the other side of the picket fence....


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captain bill

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 04 Aug 14:00

Hi Freshbrook, No I was never involved with PAAG but the name is familiar.

Re Northworst, I also remember a number of people call them by that name and folks used to tell us that the service to the USA by Laker was better that NW Y class. NW did improve greatly but as FLX says and we have mentioned it before for some reason the US airlines don't seem to give a satisfactory Y class service not even today -someone will prove me wrong.

I had a friend who flew for CX in the early 70s and he always said CX were the best around due to great service provided by great people. Ah The Swire Group - where are they now ?


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Mabel

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 04 Aug 15:55

Captain Bill, you'll be proven wrong once you fly Virgin America's Y. Leather seats, individual AVOD monitors, mood lighting, honest and user-friendly fare structure. They are a definite aberration though...with the exception of VX and WN, and Jet Blue so I'm told, flying Y in the USA is not pleasant at all.


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FLX

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 04 Aug 16:35

captain bill:
The notion of<..US airlines don't seem to give a satisfactory Y class service..> may well be a thing of the distant past. Nex time U travel to America on a U.S. carrier in Y, I think U'll be surprised. Just an example: Fly CO direct to NewYork fm Scotland<Both EDI and GLA> on any of its 752, U lose about an inch of seat pitch when compared with the Y on widebody flights with BA,VS,AA,DL,etc. plying the flagship LHR-JFK trunk. However, all other aspects are the same such as AVOD<Yes, I know, how many elderly 757 we came across in our lives hv AVOD in a C/J seat, let alone Y?>, in-seat powerplug, winged headrest, etc. C/J seat on CO's recently renovated Trans-Atl 752<Cabin upgrade for all CO 752s will be completed by Jul2011> is even more impressive: Horizontal lie-flat bed. DL's Trans-Atl 752s will be even more radical in Y after the planned renovation<Scheduled to be completed by 2012> with i-pod/usb connection+the latest Gen Panasonic AVOD in every seat. Similarly, Trans-Atl widebodies of U.S. carriers today hv got similar Y stds. Trust me, the Americans are coming on real strong in longhaul inflight products since the last few yrs.

CX in the early 70s were most likely the best in Asia-Pcf <With the possible exception of JL>. However, that was not long after SQ was born, before QF got dead serious to fight its Asian neighbors, well before EK declared its<GulfWar> on all established longhaul majors of the world and before OZ<Asiana> quite recently & quietly starting to walk away with the most important pax service awards in the world. Don't get me wrong, all in all, CX is still front line in terms of service quality, op mgmt and corp strategy. It's just that it is no longer THE best.....among the best will be more precise to describe today's CX.

The Swire empire is still alive and well in Hong Kong deriving the bulk of its big profit fm properties<Its consistently makes major killings fm real estates ventures in mainland China> and of course, CX. Compared with the 70s, today's top mgmt team @ Swire has got much less U.K. expats<The colonial corp masters were long gone...> and the union jack that used to adorn the CX fleet has disappeared fm the fuselage for over 10yrs now....correctly reflecting its current ownership structure in which substantial shares are held by the largest Chinese state-owned enterprises.


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captain bill

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 04 Aug 17:46

Mabel/FLX You know my problem is I always go with BA apart from a trip last year to ATL with Delta so I will take you up on the CO route FLX next time I go State Side.

I have read your reports Mabel about Virgin America and they seem to be a top airline. Hope I get an opportunity to try them.

The Asian market has produced some great airlines and again apart from SQ it has always been BA so as you see old habits do die hard but I must change and try.

Thanks Guys.


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FLX

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 05 Aug 6:26

captain bill:
What U hv been using consistently for longhaul travel is a perfectly normal & rational decision and in fact, reflects the purchase propensity of the vast majority of my colleagues, friends and relatives whenever they fly intercon: Sticking with the familiar. It's relatively big $<Either fm your own pocket or your employer's> per trip and most of us simply don't do such trips often on an annual basis. So unlike the more frequent shorthauls, we're just less willing to take chances in longhaul. Naturally, consistent quality proven by your very own personal experiences on BA tends to over-rule everything else in the purchase decision.

Frankly, I'm the odd one out here always looking for the<latest and/or biggest bang for the buck> re inflight products/services that keep on improving all the time thx to airlines fiercely trying to leap-frog each other these days. Remember those younger gen colleagues in your office who change their mobile/cel phones 8-9 times a yr just so they can stay @ the cutting-edge in handheld device tech<6yrs ago, I thought Blackberry was just the name of a fruit>?.....fanatical!...yes and I admit I'm a bit like that re air travel.

Mabel:
Prompted by your comments, I hv been thinking a bit about VX<VirginAmerica>. Theoretically & legally, it's a U.S. carrier. In essence, however, VX is a bit of a bastard thx to its Virgin franchise, corp culture and customer service approach that are so drastically diff fm a typical U.S. airline. It just feels very very foreign....nearly exotic. My colleague in NewYork flew VX back to his hometown L.A. a few wks ago. He agreed that the cabin ambience was exactly like a trendy wine bar/upscale nightclub in Manhattan as soon as he stepped into his VX 320.

I continue to hv trouble considering VX as a <U.S. carrier> in practice.


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captain bill

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 05 Aug 7:57

I have to admit that I am now only doing Trans Atlantic at the most twice a year and as I am looking to change my job it will only be for leisure purposes. I am as you say FLX the type of person that knows what they are going to get from BA so I stick with them.

I have been crawling around in my loft and with all the junk I have up there I am surprised the ceilings don't fall in but I have found some of my old >plane spotting log books< so I will have a look through some of these from the 60s, 70s and 80s and see what I come up with.

Any offers for my old junk will be considdered - that includes the mother in law.


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Mabel

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 06 Aug 22:28

LOL Captain Bill

My mum is in the process of digitalising all our old family photos...she recently sent me a DVD with some good photos of me as a lad in the cockpit of an Eastern Airlines plane ~1983 and exiting from the tailcone of an Aeromexico DC9 in 1986 and another of me and granddad next to a Thomas Cook jet in the Canaries ~1980

FLX, the fact that VX is so un-American is exactly the beauty of it. However, U.S. law forbids foreign majority ownership of U.S. airlines, so although Sir Richard provides loads of capital to VX the majority owners and Board of Directors are Americans. Sir Richard's influence, however, keeps VX from operating too much like the typical U.S. airline. If VX's reputation continues to improve, then just maybe a few other U.S. airlines will adopt a similar model and U.S. aviation will be much the better for it.


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brit5alpha

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 08 Aug 16:34

i remember watching the aircraft at Speke, Liverpool with the Cambrian airways viscounts, just loved the Dart engines and the smell of the fumes off them. Alsoi remember the Dan Air London Ambassadors smokey old birds
aw aircraft in the 60, 70s had so much character


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seasidepaul

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 08 Aug 17:55

The Blackpool - Isle of Man in the 60s was Silver City and then British United (CI). As a young enthusiast I watched their 7 DC3's in and out to IOM about every 20mins on a Sat.
Heralds came mid 60s. As I recall there was G-AKNB, LPN, NAE, MYV MWV, MJU, MYX. Also on Sat there was Aer Lingus F27 and British Eagle (Starways) Viscount. In the week Autair went through Vikings, Ambassadors Heralds and then new 748's ATMI and TMJ - these have only recently been disposed of from Blackpool. Happy days.


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onaping

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 08 Aug 19:36

Re mention of Blackburn Beverley - RAF Museum at Hendon had one parked outside like bases have a plane at the gate, and yes it had to be cut up for scrap because they didn't look after it.


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rogerroger

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 09 Aug 15:42

I also remember DANAIR - the British one that meant Davies and Newman rather than the Scandinavian system. They flew (amongst others) Airspeed Ambassadors on the LHR/NCL routes back in the sixties. A very civilised way of flying, high wings and low altitude !


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rogerroger

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 09 Aug 15:50

Actually I may have misremembered that last posting. It was possibly BKS that flew the Ambassadors before they changed over to Britannias


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Mabel

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 09 Aug 15:54

brit5alpha, are you a Scouser? It would have been nice to fly from LPL on a vintage Viscount, smell and all. By the time I got round to flying from LPL the Viscounts were dumped in favour of charter BAC-111s, DC9s and 737s to the Canaries, etc.


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captain bill

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 09 Aug 18:27

rogerroger it was indeed BKS Air Transport that did the LHR/NCL route and they changed their name to Northeast Airlines and then were taken over by BEA.


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oldbold

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 21 Aug 16:14

Ansett, above all.
Back in the days when there were two Australian domestic airlines, they had identical fleets and almost identical schedules.
Trans-Australia (TAA) was Government-owned, and Ansett, known in the 60s as Ansett-ANA after Reg Ansett's much smaller company took over the ailing Australian National Airways, owned by mostly British shipping lines who could not agree on anything.
Convair 240s and Viscounts had allowed TAA, set up at the end of WWII by the Labor government, to compete effectively with ANA's DC-6s, Even after a change of government allowed ANA to compete for government business, they bled money, allowing Ansett to buy the airline for a song.
The Two-airline policy then made each buy the same number of each new aircraft model as it came out: Viscount 800s, Electras, 727s, and DC-9s. If there was only enough traffic for three flights a week to Darwin, for instance, each would fly three times a fortnight, after a drawing of lots for days of the week.
There was no competition on fares for a long time, and different aircraft types only appeared when TAA bought Airbus 300s and Ansett B767s. Safety reached a very high level.
In 1966 TAA changed its name to Australian, and later (1986) was merged with Qantas, the previously only-international airline, also Government-owned.
Ansett was the subject of successive takeover battles, and for a time became a shared News Ltd (Rupert Murdoch)/TNT subsidiary. There was a period when it seemed about to become part of Singapore Airlines - by this time it was running some international services with 747s - but fell to Air New Zealand in the end.
The end came in September 2001. Overwhelmed by the internal problems of the Australian company and its diverse fleet, Air New Zealand threw in the towel. Despite valiant attempts to save something from the wreckage, a much-loved icon of the Australian airways, its fleet including 20 A320s, 34 Boeing 737s, 747s and 767s, and its 16 thousand staff, were left high-and-dry.

See http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ansett-Australia-Airlines/Boeing-747-412/0281889
/&sid=991118183fa20d343a3f11ac6a015829 and http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ansett-Airlines-of/Lockheed-L-188A-Electra/0182952/&sid=b8fea6b09a0b3a41ba17e4661595aecd and http://www.airliners.net/photo/Ansett---ANA/Vickers-832-Viscount/0459172/&sid=2777cfd2e20b40de95ada47d091ec3b5


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FLX

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 23 Aug 6:22

oldbold:
Great summary of AN history and a very nice overview of the post-WWII commercial aviation scene of Australia.

As U can see fm my earlier post re this topic, I <discovered> AN only near the end of its life and familiar with mostly just that part of its history<Though the 1st scale-model 727 I built was in AN livery in the 80s>. Despite my late encounter, I still miss AN more than many other disappeared major carriers.

I hv always suspected there were a lot of parallels between Australia and Canada in the post-WWII history of their airline industries. Your observations re the Australian scene largely confirmed my speculation:
- Essentially a two-airline policy<I recall the 1st time I learnt the term DUOPOLY was fm my university Transportation Mgmt professor>: QF/TAA/Australian+AN vs AC/TCA<TransCanadaAirlines>+CP. Carriers beyond the 2 leading airlines were considered/regulated to operate mostly in supplementary mkt niches such as regional and charter.
- Like QF/TAA, AC/TCA had extensive gov't ownership history and was partially protected fm domestic competition. Both had substantial EAS<Essential Air Services....read non-profitable> obligations but eventually privatized and became the dominant network carriers of these nations and went on to be 2 of the leading global longhaul brands today.
- Purely commercial AN and CP both tried to challenge their <flag carriers> on all fronts<i.e. Both Domestic+Int'l> but failed or being absorbed @ the end.

Of course, the timelines of major changes in these 2 mkts are diff<e.g. CP always had Int'l while AN started significant Int'l ops only in the 90s, TAA merged with QF in 86 while TCA became AC much earlier>. U may also noticed that Canada seems to hv these mkt changes occurred earlier in general than Australia. However, my hypothesis for that is that Canada, being much closer and heavily influenced by the U.S. mkt, had no choice but to follow closely with the pioneering dereg->liberalization->industry consolidation footsteps of its giant neighbor or risk being marginalized in commercial aviation<Transborder traffic being the most apparent>. Thx to geog, Australia simply did not hv similarly immediate issues.


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jetman

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 12 Sep 16:08

My fondest memories was of the ORIGINAL ..National Airlines.. circa 1934. National hubbed in Florida and had fantistic inflight service.

Beside having a large USA domestic network they flew from Florida (later Houston & JFK) non-stop to London, Paris, Frankfurt, Zurich and Amsterdam. They started TATL with DC-8-54s... then Boeing 747-100s.. then DC-10-30s.

They named their aircraft after stewardesses like Betty, Gloria, Susy, etc etc. The most famous was Linda who starred in T-V ads Fly Linda to London.

The Queen did not like N7772Elizabeth landing at Heathrow as a fat Albert 747, so the name of that ship was changed to Patricia.

They even served two full hot meals on non-stop US Transcon flights.


They were bought by Pan Am in 1980.

I sure miss 'em. National videos can be viewed on YOU TUBE.


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jetman

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 12 Sep 16:15

Another note of airlines of the past.

Chicago & Southern, Northeast (the original), Western, Northwest, Republic (the original), North Central, Lake Central, Central, Southern, Hughes Airwest, West Coast, Bonanza, and most of Pan Am.....and more!

All now a part of Delta Air Lines.


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captain bill

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  Topic: AIRLINES OF YESTERDAY - Sent 12 Sep 21:13

Jetman you bring back so many memories for me with your postings. I remember well National the original and many of these other airlines I saw as a boy when we visited Canada and the USA.

Lake Central, Great Lakes, Bonanza and Allegheny and Mohawk also come to mind.


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