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Finnair orders 5 A321ERs

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HL7597

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  Topic: Finnair orders 5 A321ERs - Sent 10 Jun 15:33

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSLDE6590VN20100610

Direct replacement for AY's Boeing 757s they had I think.

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Mabel

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  Topic: Finnair orders 5 A321ERs - Sent 10 Jun 16:03

What sort of range does this bird have? This bird could end up being a 757 replacement worldwide unless Boeing steps up and comes up with its own aircraft to compete with the 321ER.


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CPH

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  Topic: Finnair orders 5 A321ERs - Sent 10 Jun 17:55

I my self, as a passenger prefer the Airbus 320 family to any Boeing single aisle aircraft, and do understand that that many airlines prefer it from another perspective.


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Mabel

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  Topic: Finnair orders 5 A321ERs - Sent 10 Jun 18:07

My point is that Airbus could completely shut Boeing out of the 170-220 seat narrowbody market if Boeing fails to answer the 321ER. So far the best Boeing has managed to come up with to replace the 752 is the 739ER, which holds only ~85% of the pax and doesn't come close on range. This is why you don't see too many 739ERs replacing 752s worldwide.


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Lukasz

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  Topic: Finnair orders 5 A321ERs - Sent 11 Jun 23:57

A321 is slightly bigger than 739ER (just 2.5m longer), but the range is not great - 3000nm (5500 km), which is even less than 739ER - 3265 nm (6045 km), and nowhere near 752s range - 3900 nm (7222 km).

Both Airbus and Boeing don't seem convinced that there is a big market for a direct 752 replacement. Boeing probably assumes that 788 from the top, and 739ER from the bottom, don't leave enough room for any medium aircraft.

For flying around Europe, or domestic US, A321 and 739ER have enough range. For crossing the Atlantic, where many 752s operate - not really. 788 is probably going to replace 752 there. With all the efficiency improvements, 788 should offer a similar total sector cost to 752, with a much higher available seat count.


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FLX

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  Topic: Finnair orders 5 A321ERs - Sent 11 Jun 6:43

HL7597,Mabel:
According to flightglobal.com, 321ER is not an official Airbus variant designation @ this point. Apparently, the term is being used informally by AY only. In contrast, Airbus officially refers to the winglet option as Sharklet.

Mabel:
<Airbus could completely shut Boeing out of the 170-220 seat narrowbody market>? Well, probably unlikely in the longer term according to Boeing current CEO's preference towards a cleansheet approach re narrowbody replacement:
http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2010/06/04/342826/boeing-eager-to-nail-down-timeframe-for-cleansheet-narrowbody.html

By devoting R&D resources to the sharklet upgrade+the rumored re-engining<EIS 2015> for the 32x family, Airbus will be unable to come up with a cleansheet narrowbody replacement before Boeing. This is consistent with Airbus' current strategy for its cleansheet narrowbody design to hit the mkt AFTER 2025. So the opposite may actually occur by the end of this decade: Boeing could completely shut Airbus out of the 170-220 seat narrowbody market.

In the medium term<circa 2015-2019>, Airbus will likely shut Boeing out of the 170-220 seat narrowbody mkt if the 32x re-engining program is launched<Airbus most likely will IMHO>. A re-engined 321Sharklet will significantly out-perform any 739ER without re-engining.

In the near term<circa 2011-2014>, 321Sharklet will hv a slight range advantage over the 739ER. Range performance of current 739ER and std 321 are practically the same.

Actually, in a weird sort of way, I don't see 321<Sharklet or not> compete directly in practice with 739ER as 752 replacement. Obviously they do on paper. However, in most scenarios, 321 customers which need a 200seat narrowbody are already <sold> a long long time ago when they selected the 32x platform. By the same token, 739ER customers which need a 200seat narrowbody are already <sold> when they selected the 737NG platform. In other words, commonality is the key driver as opposed to how each of them closely resembles 752 payload/range performance. AY or BA will never consider 739ER nor its upgrades just as CO or KE will never consider 321 nor its upgrades.

Lukasz:
321 and 739ER are good for many U.S. domestics but still a bit sub-optimal for key transcontinental/Hawaiian routes<e.g. Boston-SFO, JFK-LAX, SEA-HNL, etc.> in terms of yr-round range/payload performance. That's why many U.S. majors are still keeping some 752s around for the longest domestic sectors. 321Sharklet, offering around 4% range improvement, will hv a good chance of covering this last niche in U.S. domestic.


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Finnair orders 5 A321ERs

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