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Inicio >> Foro >> Winglets in B757 and B767 Foro sobre la aviación civil
Winglets in B757 and B767
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Mensaje de flylinefrontier - Enviado el 04 Jan 22:51 |
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I was just at DTW spoting at those red and kind of gray and sliver NWAs. I came back noticing that Northwest airline hadn't insert any more winglets into the B757, why? They have only 7 B757 with winglets flying to Europe everyday. What I want to know is why do they stop inserting winglets into their B757? I knew NWA had lots of old B757, and they were planing to replace them by B787. But others were still new. Since 2007 Feb, I havn't seeing any more new B757 with winglets in their storage ...
Also some airline had planned to put winglets on B767 last year, but there isn't any changes were made in past couples of mouth, Why?
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Mensaje de FLX - Enviado el 05 Jan 10:29 |
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flylinefrontier:
U seem pretty concern about all issues re winglets as U constantly raise this subject in this forum.
Given the same basic aircraft design(e.g. NW's 752s), winglets mostly improve fuel efficiency and range during longer cruise. For shorter range domestic flights, cruise time per flight is too short for winglets to produce sufficient benefit to offset the extra weight/cost of the winglets. This is why we see 752s(Not just NW's) with winglets used mostly on Transatlantic/longer range flights. Another example is the 744s where almost all of them in the world hv winglets as standard due to their typically long-range airline missions. However, there is a special 744D(747-400D) version designed for the Japan domestic mkt. Longest domestic flights within Japan are only 2-3hrs and usually much shorter. Therefore, Boeing had PURPOSELY DELETED the winglet design on 744Ds for their airline customers in Japan - the only 744s in the world without winglets due to the short-range airline missions.
Fm where did U hear that NW intend to replace their older 752s with their ordered 788s? I find it EXTREMELY hard to believe this can be true nor hv I heard anything like that fm NW. 1st, either in NW domestic or Int'l cabin configuration, there's a huge diff in size between the 2 types. 2nd, all current NW 752 routes, especially domestic, don't require the extra long range of the 788. 3rd, NW DID announced that they intend to put most of their 18 units of firm order 788s on existing or newly-planned long-range transpacific routes especially China flights such as DTW-PVG and DTW-PEK. Given the aircraft down-sizing trend @ NW for the past 6-7 yrs, I believe:
1) At least some 788s will replace their older 744s that hv been flying the pacific for nearly 20yrs.
2) 788 is much smaller than 744 but this fits with NW's emerging strategy of flying more direct point-to-point non-stop U.S.-Asia flights and by-passing Japan. Currently, all NW U.S.-Asia flights stop/hub in Japan.
3) NW doesn't seems to hv any comprehensive plan to replace their 752s at all. In fact, they may continue to fly for a long time. Given the fact that their ancient DC9s are still flying, NW may think that their 752s are not old(Typical thinking for U.S. carriers). If NW domestic 752s are replaced, it'll be slow and most likely by a smaller single-aisle type such as A320 that is already in their fleet. I can't even speculate what they can use to replace the Int'l 752s though.
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Mensaje de flylinefrontier - Enviado el 05 Jan 16:44 |
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I knid of think that again, you were right about the 757 with winglets or not. I kind of realized 757 doesn't have lots of passenger on board. It is small, and looks uncomfortable. When 787, I heard that NWA will use it to replace some 757, and kind of creatinng new rules to asia, and mexico. But that is actually from long time ago... So Thanks!
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Mensaje de pipemv - Enviado el 05 Jan 21:12 |
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Mensaje de flylinefrontier - Enviado el 06 Jan 0:34 |
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From my point of view, Boeing are the most popular, most airline buyers , and the biggest growing in planes...
And just before they stop the B767 production, they begin the 787 already. They say it is a replacement for small, medium aircraft like B767, and kind of for some airline who wants to replace B757 or not.
I think there is no point of adding a winglets on B767. It can already fly pretty far away, and I think inside the cabin, people are saying it looks old and litle bit small. For me I think winglets just give more weight, and I know it can reduce drag, but I think the engine wasn't meant to be flyling like that. Like B757 winglets, some people from NWA crew saying the flight is still slower than a normal A330 flyling from DTW to AMS and actually B757 had a small body, it wasn't so comfort flyling long trip.( It might be because it is a two engine instead of 4 powerful engines) It just looks different, special after all...
My point doesn't mean I hate B757, and B767 having winglets. But I am just saying that it too much to do because there will soon be a newer aircarft replacement like B787, and A350...
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Mensaje de captain bill - Enviado el 06 Jan 7:47 |
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I don't think Boeing ever meant the 787 to replace the 757 and as far as I can see there is not a real generic replacement for the 757 which as far as I am concerned with over 30 years in the business is one of the finest airliners ever produced.
As far as 767 looking old inside that is down to to the airline who should be spending some money on them to freshen them up just as we would do in our own homes from time to time.
As far as winglets go yes they do cut down the drag and offer greater range. Just look at the 737-800. Due to winglets FLYGLOBESPAN have used it on their route from GLA to BOS so this could open up the door for other 737-800 operators to start regional airport services from the UK to USA. I am thinking in particular of Ryanair who are desperate to get on the pond and as they have done everywhere else screw it up.
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Mensaje de Werkur737 - Enviado el 06 Jan 8:14 |
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If FLYGLOBESPAN or Ryanair want use their 737-800s with winglets from UK to USA, i think AA and CO could improve their flights from USA to UK, doing the same, not to LHR of course, as a step of battle for more pax.
AC have a flight from Canada to Europe using their A319s, so why not some airlines of USA to do the same, from BOS for exemple?
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Mensaje de flylinefrontier - Enviado el 07 Jan 0:11 |
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I think AC only use A319s for a week, and then it disappeared, what flight is it using now?
I knew that B787 is too big to be a replacement to B757, but some airline think that b757 can be replace by a bigger plane. Like China's airline, my family hear that they wanted a bigger aircraft or wider cabin... That just what my family hear from, it might not be real as you guys said ...
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Mensaje de captain bill - Enviado el 07 Jan 7:08 |
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Yes flylinefrontier some airline due to passenger growth do have to replace one type with a larger one but you will fine that a short range airliner will be replaced by a short range airliner and a medium range airliner by a medium range airliner and so on.
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Mensaje de FLX - Enviado el 07 Jan 10:01 |
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flylinefrontier:
Think about it, if Chinese airlines wanted a bigger aircraft or wider cabin...to 'replace' the 757, they can do it anytime with 767s(Almost all of them hv this type) or 330s. They probably already have for a while. Most importantly, to quickly cash-in on the rapid growth, there's no need at all to risk delay by waiting until the 787 is ready and then 'replace' the 757. I find the '787 replace 757 in China' connection/argument very weak.
No doubt 330 has higher cruise speed than 757 but by how much? Exactly 15mph or 2.8% diff. That's about 15mins diff on the 7-8hrs DTW-AMS route which is exactly as per NW's official timetable. Let alone ground+weather delay affecting all aircraft fast or slow, U can count on spending a lot longer than 15mins STANDING behind the queue @ airport immigration+custom simply by arriving faster in the 300 seats NW 330 rather than arriving 15mins(All time spent SITTING) slower in the 180 seats NW 757. Don't U just love those wonderful NW crew whose professional opinion tell us which aircraft type will get U there faster.... the same folks who hv the privilege to breeze through the crew channel @ immigration+custom.....
People who think all 767s are old & small really should wake up and smell the coffee and get out to try more diff 767s before they comment on the whole type. 1st, 767 typically has more Y-class seat width space(Upto 17.8 inches) than the 330/340(17.5 in), 744(17.5 in) and even the upcoming 787(Most with 17.2 in). With only 3.5 seats per aisle, it has the best ratio in the whole industry re pax access. 2nd, I hv been on renovated 763ER that hv nearly identical cabin design as the 77W including seat design, overhead bins, ceilings, AVOD in every seat, mood lighting, etc. Airlines doing this on Int'l 763s include AC(Project XM), JL, NH, AA, UA, etc. It's interesting though that none of these airlines do the same for their lower-fare/yield domestic 767s.....which is clearly telling us something: U fly on what U pay for.
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Mensaje de flylinefrontier - Enviado el 07 Jan 20:39 |
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Mensaje de FLX - Enviado el 08 Jan 8:31 |
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757 replacements:
752 currently flying short-range - Replaced/replacing by 739ER or 321
752 currently flying longer-range(Over 4-5hrs) - No known replacement program/plan by airlines annouced. The earliest replacement aircrafts possible are the biggest+longest range variants fm the Airbus NSR aircraft family study and Boeing 737RS/Y1 aircraft family study. These 2 variants will also replace 321 and 739ER. No variants of these 2 future families are expected to be in service before 2014. In other words, it's IMPOSSIBLE to replace any long range 752 with a new same size-class aircraft within the nex 6yrs.
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Mensaje de jetman - Enviado el 29 Apr 2:16 |
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